How big a leak is it to play the same UTG range in 6max as in FR? - Page 2 - Beginning Poker Questions

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How big a leak is it to play the same UTG range in 6max as in FR?

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02-06-2012 , 06:27 PM

#26

ArtySmokes

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Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 6,999

Your open range UTG in a 6max game would typically be whatever your open range for UTG+3 in a full ring game would be. In both circumstances, you still have 5 players left to act. (If you are playing full ring and the first 3 seats (UTG, UTG+1, MP1) all folded, you're basically in a 6max situation)

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02-06-2012 , 09:00 PM

#27

TensRUs

I need a hug

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 5,578

BQ poster of the month indeed. Thanks dude. Out of curiosity, what ranges do you use for both FR and 6max tables? (Sitting with unknowns)

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02-06-2012 , 09:08 PM

#28

chad0x001

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you guys dont play e.g. TJs UTG ? Ever? I think thats a mistake. But well have to agree to disagree obv.

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02-06-2012 , 09:43 PM

#29

TensRUs

I need a hug

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 5,578

Not "ever". I assume we're discussing general strategy. Obviously we have to mix up our game, but as a general strategy, that's pretty bad since we have J high UTG. That hand has reverse implied odds. If you wanna mix up your game by raising UTG

87s>>>>>>>>>JTs imo

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02-07-2012 , 12:28 AM

#30

ArtySmokes

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TensRUs

Out of curiosity, what ranges do you use for both FR and 6max tables? (Sitting with unknowns)

As always, it depends.
In early positions, it's generally big aces and medium/big pairs. In MP I add a few more suited Broadways and all the small pairs. In late position, you can call with suited connectors and suited aces if you're deep, but I don't do much of that. Most of my late position action is stealing, and my range for that depends on who is in the blinds.

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02-07-2012 , 12:47 AM

#31

WhiteFlame

enthusiast

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 87

only if your opponents start to exploit this.. if your opp never reraise"s your UTG raise and or just flat ...you need to exploit this by opening wider range of hands this type of play works on weak/pass players...you can easily oop fire a cbet with any two and show profit

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02-07-2012 , 03:54 AM

#32

daveh07

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Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,950

I don't play suited connectors if I have some person after me that likes to call. 78s plays pretty terrible OOP against a donkey who isn't going to fold much. You definitely want to have top pair top type hands against these villains. If there is a donkey in the blinds and tags in the rest of the seats then I am opening suited connectors and Axs otherwise I am folding Ax-A9s UTG and suited connectors up to JQs.

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02-07-2012 , 06:43 AM

#33

SI-KICK

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,354

Quote:

Originally Posted by chad0x00

can you still iso raise the fish in the blinds from UTG in full ring uNL? 77, AQ+ really? what about KQ? 66? any suited connectors at all? I literally dont have a clue with FR

yeah i try my best: )

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02-07-2012 , 07:12 AM

#34

Vuggie

veteran

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,050

22+, AJ+ and KQ is probably the tightest a UTG range should be for 6max, tighter than that is probably a leak

Not for reasons of "being exploitable" or anything like that, but simply because you are not getting value out of good hands you are dealt preflop

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02-07-2012 , 08:58 AM

#35

chad0x001

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at 2 and 5nl, you can definitely raise a bit more pre when you have KK/AA

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02-07-2012 , 09:01 AM

#36

3pidemic

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 647

Quote:

Originally Posted by chad0x00

AJo+ KQ, A8s+, 22+, 78s+

UTG range?
even in 6 max ill be throwing away 22-66 UTG most of the time on a decent table.
ajo and kqo usually goes in the bin on a decent table too.

I UTG raise a lot of mid suited connectors along with A10s+ 77+ etc

But im not very happy about playing from UTG anyway.

I dont see it as a leak since I play around a 28/26 most of the time but mainly I just rape from position.

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02-07-2012 , 09:03 AM

#37

3pidemic

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 647

Quote:

Originally Posted by chad0x00

at 2 and 5nl, you can definitely raise a bit more pre when you have KK/AA

at really low stakes you can probably just open shove AA KK most of the time and get called a lot.

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02-07-2012 , 09:15 AM

#38

J9Suited

adept

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,156

Quote:

Originally Posted by chad0x00

you guys dont play e.g. TJs UTG ? Ever? I think thats a mistake. But well have to agree to disagree obv.

I'm jumping in before reading the rest of the responses so sorry if this has been covered.

The OP was sitting 100bb deep with unknowns. I would start with a really tight range UTG of any pair, AJo+, ATs+, KQs.
As I get to grips with player stats I tighten or loosen as necessary but seems a reasonable starting point at most tables.
I never add in weaker aces, burnt way too much money with these OOP

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02-07-2012 , 09:18 AM

#39

3pidemic

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 647

Quote:

Originally Posted by J9Suited

I raise any two suited cards over 10 in any position if I have solid stats for them all. if unknown I play tighter.

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02-07-2012 , 09:22 AM

#40

J9Suited

adept

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,156

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vuggie

IMHO it's more of a leak playing too wider a range UTG than too tight, almost the same as playing too many hands from the blinds (wish I'd take notice of myself on that one though)

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02-07-2012 , 09:35 AM

#41

3pidemic

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 647

Quote:

Originally Posted by J9Suited

IMHO it's more of a leak playing too wider a range UTG than too tight, almost the same as playing too many hands from the blinds (wish I'd take notice of myself on that one though)

Yeah took me a while to stop spewing in the SB.

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02-07-2012 , 10:20 AM

#42

cha4zz

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 629

UTG for 6max i'm probably playing - 22+, KQo+ and QJs/KJs (dependant on table dynamics)+.

I think the biggest leaks for micro/nano stakes players are definitely blinds play and working out when to cbet or not.

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02-09-2012 , 09:50 PM

#43

Swagga86

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 346

Quote:

Originally Posted by cha4zz

Agreed!

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02-10-2012 , 03:51 AM

#44

gothninja

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,425

Quote:

Originally Posted by meekrab

It's a leak to have the same UTG range at two different tables, let alone different games.

This. Further, it's a leak to have the same UTG range in two different hands! A lot happened in the intervening round, so the situation is different. Play the situation.

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02-10-2012 , 07:45 AM

#45

chad0x001

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If we start off playing a TJs and hands like that from UTG and play a few pots, it will set up a great image for later pots when you have monsters. there must be some value in that. most fish dont multi table and they notice if you showdown jank.

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02-10-2012 , 11:51 AM

#46

yoshi02

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 323

UTG is my worst position atm...maybe because I'm too tight? range is usually 22+, AJ+, KQs (ofc this is table dependant, but at least in the first couple orbits I start with this)

btw if you are UTG, open raise AJo or AQo and are 3b do you flat call or fold?

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02-10-2012 , 12:08 PM

#47

zumby

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Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 4,277

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoshi02

UTG is my worst position atm...maybe because I'm too tight? range is usually 22+, AJ+, KQs (ofc this is table dependant, but at least in the first couple orbits I start with this)

It's very tight for 6max. You should look in HEM and see what types of hands you are losing money with when you open from UTG. I've found 22-66 to be unprofitable at microstakes as I get called way too often and have to face tough decisions with an underpair OOP. So now I've added more suited broadway hands and strong suited aces which play better for me.

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btw if you are UTG, open raise AJo or AQo and are 3b do you flat call or fold?

Snapfold without a lot of history.

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02-10-2012 , 12:43 PM

#48

yoshi02

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 323

Quote:

Originally Posted by zumby

I've found 22-66 to be unprofitable at microstakes as I get called way too often and have to face tough decisions with an underpair OOP.

isn't setmining a good reason to open any PP at micros?

def. will try opening some suited broadway like QJs and KJs...

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02-10-2012 , 01:00 PM

#49

gothninja

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,425

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoshi02

isn't setmining a good reason to open any PP at micros?

Yes it is. You don't have to face any difficult decisions with an underpair because an underpair is pretty much worthless against any aggression.

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02-10-2012 , 01:17 PM

#50

zumby

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 4,277

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoshi02

isn't setmining a good reason to open any PP at micros?

Sets are always profitable, but usually it's your set vs villains air, and in that situation you win more when you are the preflop caller than the preflop raiser.

E.g...

Party, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #11842982

SB: $27 (108 bb)
CO: $50.19 (200.8 bb)
Hero (BTN): $49.07 (196.3 bb)
MP: $30.48 (121.9 bb)
BB: $25 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with 3

2 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, SB folds, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.60) 8

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.90, BB folds

Results: $1.60 pot ($0.24 rake)
Final Board: 8

Hero mucked 3

and won $1.36 ($0.61 net)
BB mucked and lost (-$0.75 net)

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

Party, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #11842972

MP: $9.88 (39.5 bb)
BB: $9.04 (36.2 bb)
CO: $49.90 (199.6 bb)
Hero (BTN): $25 (100 bb)
SB: $13.99 (56 bb)
UTG: $47.34 (189.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with 5

UTG raises to $0.75, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.75, 2 folds

Flop: ($1.85) 5

(2 players)
UTG bets $1, Hero raises to $2.95, UTG folds

Results: $3.85 pot ($0.57 rake)
Final Board: 5

Hero mucked 5

and won $3.28 ($1.53 net)
UTG mucked and lost (-$1.75 net)

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.