Small home tourney...3 players left, two places pay. I am on the buttone with ~16,000, SB has ~9,000, BB has ~25,000. Blinds are at 500/1000. I have KQ diamonds and call. SB raises to 4,000 total, BB calls, I call.

Flop comes 8, 9, 10 two diamonds. SB checks, BB goes all-in. What do I do?

I end up calling...I figure any J and any diamond plus two over cards. BB had flopped nut straight with J,7...I hit my diamond on the turn and go on to win tourney.

My question of "What should I do" is because I was given some grief about "making that call"...was it that bad of a call regardless of the outcome?

Thanks

So there's effectively 24,000 in the pot assuming SB is going to fold before you call and you have 12,000 left. You actually had 43% equity against his specific hand, so if you would even be able to put him on that you were correct to call.

Against a range of possible hands that he might have you were almost a coinflip, so yeah I'd insta call this. NH

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

63,360 games 0.005 secs 12,672,000 games/sec

Board: 8d 9d Tc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 47.740% 47.32% 00.42% 29979 269.00 { KdQd }
Hand 1: 52.260% 51.84% 00.42% 32843 269.00 { TT-88, ATs-A9s, QJs, T9s, 98s, ATo-A9o, QJo, Js7c, T9o, 98o }

First off, you shoulda raised from the button there. The call is not horrible there but you made it and won so who cares what they think. lol

I'm no rounder so take it with a grain of salt.

3 handed, you should have raised to $3k preflop with that hand.

Anyway, preflop, there's 12K in the pot. You have $12K left, SB has $5K, BB has $21K.

Flop gives you two overs, plus the flush. Forgetting about the two overs here (since we know he had the straight), you're a 2:1 dog to hit the flush. Plus a Jack gives you the nut straight, so really, you have 12 outs, making you about a 6:5 underdog to win.

SB checks, BB goes all in.

Effectively, there's $24K in the pot for you, not counting SB possible money. Calling gives you 2:1 on your money, so you're getting the right price, since you're in a basic coin flip situation here.

So no, it's not a bad call. It just sucks flopping a straight and losing to the flush.

You can tell your buddies that when they have the best hand and all their chips in the pot, they should want a call. Well at least most sane poker players do.

Instead, what he appeared to be whining about was losing a hand where he was a favourite. Gee whiz, I think that's about the second time I heard about that happening this month.

I think I understand what you guys are saying...but after the (sb) short stack raised 3,000 pre-flop(leaving him only ~6,000 more) and then with the (bb) Big stack calling...do you guys really think I should re-raise here? I decided to just call because I felt like if the sb hit the flop, he is certainly all-in and if the bb calls him and I hit nothing I can easily get away from my hand.

"I (You) won, didn't I (You)," has to be an example of one of the worst kinds of thinking.

Would you be saying that if he played 7 2 off and won?

People need to examine their wins and losses.

It was three handed, you were first to act preflop, and with KQs, you should have raised.

I agree with the raise to open action, but once you don't do that, I love your play for one simple reason - you had position and exploited it correctly both in theory and practice (hey that's a book title!)

SB makes a terrible play with the raise, he should be thinking shove or fold. By just calling his raise, you get to see everything happen before you act - this is just so powerful in no limit play.

And as far as his whining, ignore it. It was basically a post-flop coinflip and you got lucky. You were right to race (another important poker concept, knowing when its time to just gamble it up).

may i ask where you quoted that from. omg i can't see how you got that from what i said. snap judgements are a hoot.

With 2:1 pot odds, many would gamble here figuring their King high flush would be the nuts. But, if villain held Adxd or AdJd (which I would consider possible hands held) hero is in trouble.

Also, because opponent pushed first and had hero out-chipped, hero is putting entire tourney on line with draw that may not be the nuts. SB, who I assume folded, is now crippled (with 5k in chips) which makes another case for folding to finish in the money.

I raise these points to play Devil's Advocate rather than to simply disagree with those who make valid points for calling; in fact, I'll often be calling here. But a case can be made for folding late in a tourney when finishing in the money make take precedent over making a +EV call on a draw.

You should have raised right away pre-flop instead of limping.


On the flop in a cash game you would definitely call as this is definitely +chip ev. However, in the tounrament and especially on the bubble I'm sure it depends on the payout structure: how much is 1st getting and how much is second getting? The bigger the difference between the 2 and the more likely it would be you should call. But if they are similar prize amounts then a fold may be correct.

Yeah, 1st to act that is a raise. As played, your call was ok against a big stack using his muscle who would have a wide range here.

BTW the BB had not flopped the nut straight.

I would honestly probably fold here. This is why. Only 2 places are paying, the SB is low with an M of 6, and now has half his stack in this pot. Yes we have possibly a 12 out draw, but if villain happens to have the ace high flush draw and is shoving a semi, we're looking really bad, if he's flopped the straight, yeah we're getting 2:1 on a 43% win, but that means 57% of the time we're busting out on the bubble instead of maintaining a decent stack and assuring the money, and if it's a set, now we're a mesley 33% winner. I think we need to take the payout structure into consideration along with heads up ability. I feel very confident in my heads up play, and I wouldn't mind coming in heads up behind, knowing I'm in the money and now on a freeroll. Fwiw, if the 2nd place is the good old "2nd gets their money back" I'm shoving here, that's the dumbest payout structure ever and I hate it, lol.