Hi guys

This one is realy a noob question but i coulndt find an answer by my self.

Its usual to see people saying in the forums: i will push 30%, i call 40% vs that villain, etc.

My question is: those % are based on what? If we input 20% on wizard it will give as range of hands that its different if you input the same 20% in stove or equilab.

When i comment in a thread about hand ranges iam always thinking about the % that wiz says. Lets see and example so I can show my point: analising a sng hand where iam in the co with xx having 10bbs. I decide to shove cause i expect villain in bb(for the example btn and sb fold) to call only with top 30%(i always assume that 30% its the top30% that wiz tells me in ther charts for villain calling range). My move can have a positive or negative expectad value depending on my hand when computed in a icm calculator. Now supose iam in the BB with xx and co shove. I "know" btn is shoving 40%(again iam assuming this 40% are those hands wiz tell me in ther charts). I look to my hand, pot odds and other factor that are not important for this problem, and I need to know the equity my hand has vs btn 40% shove range to decide wheter call or not. I go to stove or equilab to find my equity. When i input the data to run the simulation I will use my hand in one field and 40% of hands in the other field. HERE is the problem. Iam using a 40%range based on wizard but in stove those 40%range wont include the same hands as in wiz. Why is that and howit will affect the quality of my analises?

Sorry for my english. Hope someone understand my point.

Ty in advance

help????

I don't play SNGs, so I don't use SnGWiz.

My understanding is that wiz uses the Sklansky/Chubakov hand rankings. Pokerstove, as far as I know, ranks hands according to their equity against a number of pre-selected hands.

I may be off on this, btw, as I am saying this from memory.

Tkx for your help. Maybe its better to post this in mttsng forum, no?

Yes maybe. Poker theory might also be a good forum for it.

SNGWIZ doesn't give you the top 20% or 25% per cent of ranges to play in certain spots it gives you 20 or 25 % of your entire range to play if you get what I mean?

Included in the 25% range for pushing might be a hand that lies between 35% and 45% of hands. This is because the 20% range required for pushing and calling will be very different. Input a hand into SNGWIZ where you are trying to work out a call and input one where you are trying to figure out a shove, look at how different the two ranges will be.

A big part of learning push fold is learning how ranges work differently vs different ranges in different situations. ICM manipulates similar chip situations massively.

I'm including a Pokerstove screen shot to show you what I mean...



Pokerstove1 is Pokerstove's top 17% and Pokerstove2 is a random 17% I gave it. i.e 17% of your entire range as opposed to the top 17%.

First of all tkx a lot for your answer.

i think I know what you mean. ICM calculators give us a % of our entire range and Stove % of hands its not based in our range but in hand ranking distribuiton. 25% on wiz means top 25% of our range, 25% on Stove means top 25% of hands acordingly to the ranking of hands. ???

Yes, I know that. We need to know how some hands play vs some ranges so we can adapt. Example: If I know villain just call with a10,aj,aq,ak sort of hands I prefer to have 67,78,89,75...cause when we get a call this hands will have more equity vs his range than if we were shoving with Ace rag.

Iam building a program like CR-EV to use when playing mtts. My goal its to use villains frequencies,game flow, table dinamics, input them in the program and then narrowing ther iniciatal ranges trought the hand based on betting paterns, hand reading,etc, being able to know that way at each street my equity vs his combos.

Maybe its better to use a hand range distribuiton rather a hand ranking distribuiton, right?

Ps: Sorry for derailing your staking thread that day but sometimes rainbow warrior sucks with his comments.