Me, a microstakes (.01/.02) nit, is back again -- hoping for your input on a hand I wasn't satisfied with.

Both Hero and Villain are at about 100 big blinds. I have no information on Villain. He was new to the table.

Hero in late position with KJo. Opens to 4xBB.
Villain is on BB. He calls. Heads up.

Flop is KT5 rainbow.
Hero bets pot. Villain calls.

Turn is A.
Hero checks. Villain checks.

River is T.
Hero checks. Villain bets half pot. Hero folds.


Too big of a bet on the flop? Too wimpy on the turn and river? It was hard for me to imagine what I was beating on the river.

Your comments are much appreciated. Thank you in advance.

My first question is how the BB managed to bet after you checked on the river?

Why 4x pre? I'm not really keen on potting the flop either, but if you do that, then checking back the turn and folding to a river donk is fine. (As Denks says, villain can't bet if you check the river).

Maybe he meant button in his OP?

Thank you all. I should have saved this hand instead of trying to type it up after the fact. I was out of position.

As for my preflop 4x raise, I typically vary between .06 (3x), .07, .08 (4x), and something larger if there are limpers. I guess my thinking was that if I routinely raise KQ, KJ, and the like to 3x that I'd become too transparent. Is the downside to raising 4x with KJ that I am more likely to pick up callers with ranges stronger than my own?

Being out of position, I should still bet this flop, right? Something more like 1/2 or 2/3 rather than the full pot, though?

Should I check the turn because it's an ace, or because he called the flop? Either way, I fold if he makes a serious move on the turn or river?

1) Raise whatever you need to per the ongoing dynamic of the table.
2) C-bet a high percentage here, why not? Your bet size, again, should be dictated by the table dynamic and more importantly by what 'this' opponent may call. You hit your hand so get some value.

3) I don't mind the check on the Turn for pot control (some of the time) ... but only if you are going to lead 'lots' of Rivers if your opponent checks behind. You picked up some equity (Queens) and you also want to make your opponent pay for weaker holdings/draws.
4) I do call some on the River. Could be a bluff, could be another Kx (chop) .. JJ?
4A) I do bet some on the River. Why can't you have Tx? You still have control of the betting and donking out on the River may get you to a cheaper showdown. If you get raised, well then your opponent had a Tx/QJ or outplayed you (this time).

I agree that 'any' pot sized bet on a Flop HU is very suspicious, even OOP, when you look at ABC poker. But I still have to say you bet what you think your opponent will call. Do you bet pot with AA here? Or just weak Kx/Tx and OESD hands?

I will say that my comments are more from a live game setting. In online poker this may be a 'no brainer' situation and 'easy fold' on the River. GL

OP, what's the answer to this question?

I like the open size at micros or at least i think it's fine. There's really nothing wrong with opening a tighter range and using a larger sizing. In fact, if player are rather inelastic with their calling ranges (as I'd suspect at these stakes) then the bigger sizing starts to make a lot of sense.

OP, you asked if the worry was that your large sizing would start to fold out the hands you beat and only get called by hands that beat you and with KJ this may have some truth to it, but that's always gonna be something close to the case when you're near the bottom of your range. If you are opening EP-MP then KJ may be one of the weaker hands you open but there's always going to be "that hand". You'd prob prefer to get folds w the bottom of any range, right?

If you actually did open from LP and got called by button or one of the blinds (seems you're not real clear on this) then KJ is nowhere near the bottom of your range, or shouldn't be, and it's unlikely anyone would expect you to open a super tight range and you can easily get called by worse and actually you can get called by a decent number of hands that you dominate and that's where a lot of the real value comes from. eg; you open KJ and the bb flats you with any of; QJ, JT, KT, K9s, J9s

I also think your line makes sense in that betting flop and checking turn seems pretty good in a lot of games against a lot of players, in a sense you'd be over repping a hand with plenty of show down value by betting the turn after cbetting the flop. Checking the turn does tend to turn your hand a bit face up but you shouldn't run into too many players who are able to recognize that and then also able to make the right adjustments against it at micro stakes NL. If you notice someone abusing you by over betting against you when you cap your range or going for perfect value bets and seemingly just reading you too well then you will have to start throwing some bigger hands into your check back range or maybe just bet your entire range on turns like the Ace when you are PFR and c-bettor but I wouldn't tend to worry too much about that at the micros unless i saw that it was def needed (at which point I think i'd just change tables actually

So I don't mind preflop
i think the c-bet is pretty obv depending on exact positions (maybe not so great UTG vs UTG1) but mostly it should be correct especially at micros to c-bet the flop. The sizing is on the big side but a lot of players are either going to call you or not at least on the first bet on the flop so maybe betting larger with value hands is actually just fine. I take no issue with the sizing, maybe a tad smaller is a tad better.
On the turn I think your hand has gone from value to show down value or bluff catcher or maybe a two street value hand vs a station. I like the turn check
THE RIVER is where the actual positions start to matter a bit more. If you are in position and checked the turn back and your opponent lead the river then you're in a tough spot but should prob just fold. If, however, you are OOP and your opponent checked the flop back his range starts to look a bit weaker. Yeah he can still have Tx but he shouldn't have too many Ax hands, he won't likely check back sets or two pair on that board and probably shouldn't be checking straights back so his range would likely have some Tx, some Kx, and some other random crap like pocket pairs that didn't want to fold to one bet on the flop and random floats. I would think the value part of villains range will be mostly Tx and then a few straights but you block those. If you thin villain is bad enough to have and bet a hand like KQ or some Ax combos then he's likely also bad enough to bet JJ or QQ or a weak Kx. If villain is likely to be more polarized then he will have bluffs and you are getting pot odds with maybe the best bluff catcher you get to this spot with.

I think, readless, it's a fold if you are the one who checked the turn back
I think, readless, you can maybe make a pot odds bluff catch and not be too too suprised if villain bets a hand like K9s or 88 because he "didn't want to check and be put in a tough spot."

You are getting 3 to 1, you need to be good 25% to break even. You are at the top of your range so you have to have some bluff catches in your range to not be exploitable and the best hand you have to bluff catch here has got to be one that; may beat some of villain's overly thin value bets with Kx and blocks the broadway straight, blocks top set, and blocks AK that is prob the only Ax villain will def bet.

I think your fold is fine regardless of your position. I think the entire line was actually very good. But I do think the river decision is close. I think one could make a real case (OOP) for checking KJ hoping your opponent checks back a hand you beat like some kind of pocket pair or a worse Kx but being ready to go for the check raise if you face a bet. You block the hands that would snap call a check raise and the "check portion" of this river check raise is pretty damn good as when he checks back you win so often, and in general hands that are very close between a fold and a call will make good bluff raise candidates.


interesting hand

I don't see there is anything unclear here. As a general pointer, when there are two high cards or so on the flop, one needs to think more carefully.