I was thinking the other day, since Limit hold'em is so math heavy, really isn't fixed limit the only place a bot would work. I cannot imagine the logic and other factors that goes into PLO and NLHE really having a use or a legitimite bot program that would be successful. (not raising ethics into the equation of course)

Is this the wrong thinking, just read the sally woo gus hansen article btw which kinda resparked my curiosity, just wondering thoughts.

All games like this are just maths, just NL is more complex than Limit because you can have variable bet sizing so obviously the bots are worse.

The "logic" only comes into it because we are trying to guess what the best option is as we don't know what the maths would say because it's not solved.

Im not an expert, but from what I gather bots can beat uNL consistently, but the low/mid stakes and higher have too many players who are able to exploit the fact that they play the same hands the same way every time.

a) this isn't necessarily true of bots, if you take the same opening repeatedly against the same chess computer it isn't going to react in the same way every time;
b) playing the same hands in the same way every time isn't necessarily exploitable.

The state of NLHE bots is getting worrying though, and LHE has a much simpler game tree so although I don't know much about it I'd assume the bots there can only be better.

This was about fixed limit Omaha 8, and Gus is behind the times on the Legal programs available to players. The program is most likely an advanced HUD, which has been customised for Sally's FLO8 games.
Gus doesn't even run a HUD (I've been in the same room and seen him play on Full Tilt) and was on tilt after losing a very large sum of money when he accused Sally.

In regards to bots, it is possible to program winning bots, but they are very exploitable if you can see what they are.
I did a video on the Gus/Sally thing a while ago, but I don't think I'm allowed to post it here under the 2+2 rules. PM me if you'd like to see it.


[mod edit: this is the video hippy is talking about, at 8:53]

Bots have sucked 6 figures+ out of midstakes NLHE the past couple years.

Don't they have HU LHE machines in casinos now? I remember reading about it here a couple of years ago I think.

So on that basis, yes a bot can beat decent players in LHE.

As for NLHE, unfortunately I think the rise of the machines is pretty inevitable. The tools are all available right now: powerful PCs, fast online connections, billions of online hands and skilled progammers tweaking existing bots.

I think what will happen is that the bots will go up through the ranks and end up playing and beating the nosebleeds. Then weaker bots will move down through the stakes sequentially until cheapass apps are being run by Chinese and Indians on smartphones to beat 2NL for $2 an hour.

Then online poker implodes and we have to go to casinos to get a game.

I think its really difficult to design a bot to beat no limit games, because any amount could be bet. At fixed limit it is possible to play 'perfectly' and grind out a winrate

Yes and yet it happens.