This hand:

Villain is 25/22 over 113 hands.


When villain shoves, I had to stop and think about it. I even commented in chat that I wasn't sure I could lay it down.

I'm sitting here thinking - should I call? Was it the right call? And when the hand was over I told him, "Good bet man that had me thinking" but he didn't even see it cause he was too busy accusing me of slowrolling.

Am I crazy? Is AT for your whole stack an auto-call??

lol at accusing someone of slowrolling with ATo preflop

I'm pretty sure AT is in the nash equilibrium here for calling. Having said that, 26BB is a lot for an open shove and it's fine to think about it at least. It's fair from standard to just jam here especially because there is a lot of room to just raise/fold here so taking some time here with a non-nutted hand is perfectly fine. Villain had a hand he could profitably turn face up and let you make a decision, you happened to have a hand that beats him but this by no means a slowroll. It's an easy call by the equilibrium but that's not the thing you are thinking about, you're thinking about making an exploitable fold and when you're thinking about an exploitable play it's fine to take some time. If he feels slowrolled then he should be thankful you were thinking about folding because it would benefit him if you did.

technically it's a nitroll

Yeah that's a better definition. Personally I would have the cursor hovering above the "all in call" button before the action even gets to him.

"Sorry for giving you credit for being a mediocre player. I won't make that mistake again."

Nothing more needs to be said to the villain.

really ? I think theres a pretty good chance id fold it for 26bb. Kinda certain actually, i wouldnt imagine there being anything im ahead of.

And thats while im a cash gamer. Its a tournament with 4 people, meaning i guess were already ITM and ICM playing a big factor.

Yeah, pretty darn sure. Fwiw A5s is callable for 20bb, can only imagine what AT is worth. Most nash charts don't show what the actual number is above 20 because it tends not to get a push/fold above that number but pretty sure you can get up to 30 with AT.

Actually it is really funny this thread comes up. I had a little homegame with someone reasonable competent (he plays for a living by the way but will probably give me an edge in terms of game theory and balancing) and a complete noob. The noob 3bet/folded ATo for 26bb and competent player had A7o. It's like this exact hand except the action didn't go openshove but this really is a "cooler" no matter you look at it. Heads up people underestimate how often you get a hand and if you fold ATo you fold like 10 big blinds before you can get a hand to call with and even then you don't recover the whole 10BB in equity advantage. This has to be a call.

I should have mentioned - to Arjen's question - this was a satellite to the WPN Million, so there were only 2 places paying - 1st was a seat and 2nd was the cash left over. The whole tournament structure was pretty shovey the whole way too - they always are - cause they start out as short stack R/As to start with 5 min blinds.

So when SB open shoved 26BB, it wasn't that I was considering moving up a ladder, it was my entire tournament life on the line, almost on the bubble.

That might actually change things, not sure if it changes things sufficiently. Regardless, the payout structure is sufficiently different in a satellite that this could be a fold.

How could this possibly be a call?

Against a range of 22-66 we're not getting pot-odds to call if it's a cash game much less a tournament where we're risking our survival.

It's a fold against a pokerstove top 16% range even in a cash game: 66+,A7s+,A5s,K9s+,Q9s+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+,QJo.

http://www.holdemresources.net/h/web...=&s8=&s9=&s10=


SB 49.3%, 22+ Ax+ K2s+ K6o+ Q2s+ Q8o+ J2s+ J8o+ T6s+ T8o+ 95s+ 98o 85s+ 75s+ 65s 54s
BB 8.7%, 77+ A9s+ ATo+

So your ATo was just on the edge. bIf SB really had a 50% push range that is. If he is significantly tighter, i expect you should call tighter too.

If he's jamming 16% then it's 47%, could be a call with the slighest pot odds but don't know for sure and don't care. Point is he can be jamming way wider here profitably so why are we taking 16%? First of all when you add all aces this becomes an easy call. And since SB can profitably shove any ace why are we assuming he doesn't? Given he tabled A7o it perfectly reasonable to give him a wider range. A7o, the hand the actually had, isn't even in the 16% range you put together so it's already false.

LOL @ villain accusing you of slowrolling, what a tard.

Nothing at all needs to be said to villain. Villain is giving information away when he is ranting; no need to give him your information, and tapping the glass is rude anyway.

You are well within the rules to take as much time as you are allotted. Who cares if it upsets your opponent?

I didn't care that my opponent was upset. In fact I told him that if he thought taking time to consider whether to call all-in with AT was slow-rolling then he probably shouldn't be critiquing the play of others.

I was just shocked that anyone WOULDN'T stop to think about it...If you don't have the nuts you should ALWAYS think about it IMO

I don't really agree with this, there are many occasions when non-nuts is good enough to just stick it in.

+1

So if you had kings would you think it is not a slowroll?

If I had kings I'd at least think about how likely this player is to be shoving the SB with worse.

I wouldn't think LONG, of course...