^^?? what??... my comment was for the guys who said op could have gotten away from it on the flop... i already said earlier its a cooler and that op should of raises pre and on the flop and shove turn as the villain would of called the flop with jacks and probably shove turn, these guys dont even know what a 3bet is, they call and shove when they hit hands or shove when they miss and want you to fold...

Apologies if I read your post wrongly !

It seemed to me you were saying there isn't any point raising/betting against a calling station who'll call you down & suck out on you.

You see, I don't really agree that hand was a cooler. OP never had any reason to think he was behind (definitely until turn), wasn't always behind, and if it had been played better he had every chance to take the hand down.

???... so a guy limps on the button and you flop 2nd best set, and on the turn even if he shoves his whole stack into a small pot why in the world are you going to put him on for you to fold?.. your logic is zomg he limped aces/jacks on the button and is now shoving the turn on me?.... come on now, you guys must be folding everything but the nuts without thinking about the hand at all, to fold whether you win the hand or not would be a bad/incorrect play regardless

This is why I come to this board. Funny topic guys

It isn't as simple as villain just shoving on the turn. Hero bets, Villain 3bets, Hero 4bets, Villain 5bets, Hero shoves. Thats a **** ton of action after no action on the flop. When villains at micros are 5betting it should start to raise some flags. Esp since most micro donks are shoving after a 3bet/4bet when they have a hand.

From my general experience: Never fold sets when there is an ace, they stack off with top pair more than you stack off with a set vs an overset or a flush straight etc

No no no. The problem with the hand is not how to find a fold. Everyone is (I think) agreed that that would be difficult.

The problem is:

Villain limps on BTN. Can literally have ATC.
Hero had a mid PP. Hero needs to raise here. He is almost certainly ahead.
Hero flops a set. Only behind now to AA.

Hero must bet the flop here.

If he had done, villain may well have folded and hero wins the pot. Checking the set & slowplaying here is awful.

Once villain hits his set on the turn hero is pretty much doomed, but the only reason it definitely happened was passive play.

As you say, villain may have called a flop bet with his JJ anyway. But he may not. Checking the flop means he never had to make that decision.

second hand preflop check is fine, raising is ok as well. It generally depends on postflop reads.

All of you who are advocating raising preflop - how does your logic not work with ATC? Raise any two, if called cbet any flop, win pot. If you are called on flop and don't have a set, you just bloated the pot OOP and have to c/f turn.

Flop is a must bet though. Turn is fine.

Thank you, I understand everybody's logic who is saying raise preflop and I definitely am taking the advice into account. But, you're not going to flop too many sets and with a hand like pocket sevens I don't see the value in inflating the pot preflop OOP when a good percentage of the time a pair of sevens wont be the best hand in a 3way+ pot post flop. In retrospect I should have bet the flop but my reason for checking was to go for a check raise (sounds noobish, I know). Because if I bet the flop and nobody has an ace or a flush draw I'm not getting any action and taking down 20c pot, whoopdie damn doo. Also if I bet the flop and get called obviously I assume someone has an ace or a flush draw and I'm still not bloating the pot enough to stack someone on further streets. Now if I check raise the pot will be a good size to get a lot of value on the turn (assuming the fish will go broke with any ace or pay a lot for a flush draw). Obviously my giving of a free card was the death of me in that hand but I can't always assume someone has a higher set or I wont get any value from my hands.

??.. im puzzled here, you dont need to flop a set to win a hand.. majority of the time people will not make a hand on the flop and the fact he limped in that spot he could even have understands to your 7's, he could have an ace with a 5 suited or something like that where he only has one overcard.... limping with jj, kj etc in that spot is just stupid and even on a jack high flop or whatever we are still 100% cbeting & probably double barreling as our hand is good majority of the time, forget if you win the hand at that particular time, the play in itself is profitable in the long run

Hence the question - why does it matter what your cards are?

You're already a longshot to stack anyone because it's a limped pot. That's one of the reasons people are saying to raise preflop. Even if that raise weren't immediately profitable (and I believe it is, even against opponents who call loosely), it'll be much easier to get stacks in when you do flop a set if the pot's been built up a bit. Going for the check-raise on the flop, in the limped pot, represents your hand for exactly what it is: a monster. That's not such a good thing if your opponents are at all awake. And I realize it's 5nl and you're surrounded by fishes and what not, but this isn't 2004. Even today's fish are better than yesterday's fish, and a lot of them know that a check-raise in a limped pot means extreme strength. They might even be able to get off of that weak Ace. The flush draw, they'll still pay to chase though. Fish always love flush draws.

Too much result-oriented thinking ITT