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Folding Folding

02-18-2009 , 07:20 PM
I feel I fold too easy with pocket pairs. Although I mainly look for set value with them, if I hold 66 and the flop comes 7 T J on a rainbow board and someone bets, I'm folding here 100% of the time.

Although pp's are my biggest earners, I still feel I'm missing a lot of value from them. Here's 2 examples from PT;

HAND ONE.

Poker Stars $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 42693
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $4.58
BTN: $5.19
SB: $3.93
Hero (BB): $3.62
UTG: $2.34

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is BB with 6 6
1 fold, CO calls $0.02, BTN calls $0.02, 1 fold, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.07) 5 A 8 (3 players)
Hero checks, CO checks, BTN bets $0.08, Hero folds, CO calls $0.08

HAND TWO.

Poker Stars $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 42698
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $2.87
MP: $4.50
CO: $3.38
BTN: $2.99
SB: $1.06
Hero (BB): $3.19

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is BB with 7 7
UTG raises to $0.04, 1 fold, CO calls $0.04, BTN calls $0.04, SB calls $0.03, Hero calls $0.02

Flop: ($0.20) 4 Q T (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets $0.06, CO folds, BTN calls $0.06, SB folds, Hero folds

Should I be seeing a turn here, calling their small bets and perhaps seeing if they give away their air by checking the turn? Or am I making pretty standard decisions here by not getting myself in sticky situations?



As you can see, pp's are high up on my list of BB/100, could they be higher?
Folding Quote
02-18-2009 , 07:22 PM
In hand 2, you have 5 players on the flop. It's almost guaranteed that at least one of them would have connected with the flop with their Qx or Tx, leaving you way behind. You have to ditch the hand unless you improve for free.
Folding Quote
02-18-2009 , 07:25 PM
Both of these examples are straight forward folds in my opinion. In both of them you're in a multiway pot.

If you were head up with someone calling the flop and seeing if they fire again on the turn would be okay in certain spots. In a multiway pot I think it's an easy fold.
Folding Quote
02-18-2009 , 07:36 PM
Maybe try leading the betting once and a while. The better situations are unraised pots and fewer players.

In that first hand, a lot of the time 66 will be the best hand after the flop. Obviously a raise is sign to give up and a call is not that good either. Although, even if you get a call, you might get a free card on the turn. You might get a cheap show down with a busted draw hand and win the pot.
Folding Quote
02-18-2009 , 07:40 PM
Standard.

You're trying to invent problems where there are none. Both hands you're OOP multiway with flops that are likely to have hit someone. Doing anything other than check/folding is spew.
Folding Quote
02-18-2009 , 07:43 PM
ha lool @ a9 being ur 4th most grossing hand, behind AA KK and AK... not bad just funny. I dont know if this is any indication that you are also throwing away JJ and QQ away too easily but its probably just a coincidence. These two hands you posted are standard, I agree with what people said. In a multi way pot there is no shame in chucking in an underpair to the board, especially facing aggression ( and especially when the bet is bigger than whats in the pot, not to mention bad position)

Sometime try to lead out and that can define ur opponents better/make it less likely they will bluff you off the best hand. Calling down is not really a good play, for the 1 time you pick off a bluff you will end up spewing your chips to a better hand like 10 times.
Folding Quote
02-18-2009 , 07:55 PM
I don't think you're doing anything wrong here.

If you don't hit your set and you have 2 over cards on the board, even heads up you might be beat. It's hard to take 3rd pair to showdown unless you have an amazing read on your opponent. With a multi way pot, it's an easy fold even if you have only 1 over card on the board. There's too much of a chance one of your opponents connected with the flop.

You play them fine, imo. Except that you probably want to start leading out if you're going to be playing them OOP. small pairs thrive when in position......If you start calling bets too much with lower pp you'll start spewing.
Folding Quote
02-18-2009 , 08:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyKGB
ha lool @ a9 being ur 4th most grossing hand, behind AA KK and AK... not bad just funny.
I must have had a couple of big pots with it somewhere down the line, I'll load PT when I start my session in a bit and check it's history .

Will work on my flop play with pairs, generally if I bet (with even 2 more in the pot) and get called, a check is pretty much giving up the pot right there, and firing another bullet on the turn is spewing aswell, so it's always a difficult situation.
Folding Quote
02-18-2009 , 09:07 PM
Hand 1:
You can make a case for checking or raising preflop, and for check-folding or bet-folding on the flop. I prefer a raise preflop and c-bet on the flop, build a pot for when you hit a set, and give up if you get raised preflop or on the flop or called on the flop and don't improve.

Hand 2:
The preflop call and the flop check-fold are pretty standard.

The hands look pretty standard, post some more please. Also, you need a huge amount of hands to get accurate stats of which are better for you. For example say you randomly get stacked with JJ and it goes down a few spots or the opposite happens. AA and KK are your dominant ones of course. Good luck, Yojimgari
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