Can anyone recommend any situations to float flop oop? Is floating flop oop with gutshot/air and betting turn a good line or does it not make any sense? Should i just avoid floating OOP with air?

I dont know why you would really want to. IMO positional advantage is what makes most floats work well...

Floating OOP is difficult, when you float IP you have the advantage of seeing your opponent cbet and then check the turn.

Floating OOP is really only warranted when your opponent has a significantly high c-bet % and a significantly low turn/river bet %. If this is the case and you balance your ranges accordingly (*i.e c/c flop then leading turn with both air and premium hands) then i guess u can do it. But u should for now stick to floating in position

c/r would be better than floating oop

until ur opponent realises that ur flop c/raising range doesnt correspond with your pf flatting ranges and starts floating your check raises; orrr until he adjusts and starts betting mostly strong hands on the flop causing u to spaz out. floating OOP if balanced properly is less variance so...

no check raising isnt always better

floating OOP is unpossible

its just a donk call, lol

c/c, donk turn is pretty weak. If he will fold to turn bet, he is folding to a c/r on the flop. c/c also gives him the turn which might improve his hand causing him to call turn.

Once he adjusts, and starts playing back... thats fine, readjust (not nearly as much but enough to keep them playing back strongly) and then when they are screwed its too late before they realize it. Here and there on the flop now, or big pots and more than likely stacks later. They get their choice of which one, I don't care which it is... once they are burned a few times they usually prefer to go back to folding to the c/r.

c/r range is polarized since its with nothing, sets, flopped monsters, monster draws, overpairs etc...

C/R > Float OOP, and is not even close.

Its not like the mere act of calling a bet HU gives it the magical name of the "float". A check-call is still considered floating the flop. The main idea behind floating (not the only idea) is to bet if checked to... Clearly you do not get checked to, nor do you get any valuable information out of your opponent.

A prime time when you would check-call out of position are when you don't want to build a big pot because your opponent is aggressive, but you have a nice drawing hand like a nut flush draw with some overs. There are plenty of other situations to, but mostly with check-calling you have to make a player-related decision beforehand.

Generally i agree... but poker is not a game of absolutes, and many things have to be factored in. Against a hyper-agressive player like i described in my previous post, a check-raise with anything but a nice made hand or a crazy draw (a Open ended straight-flush draw comes to mind) will result in him shoving and you stuck and looking like an idiot.

I mostly agree except to note that your definition of a polorized range is pretty loose. Mostly, polorized means "the nuts or air" and with only a bit in-between. A truly polorized range very rarely consists of overpairs or draws.

Is a float OOP with the intention of leading the turn going to do any better against said hyper-aggro player?

Agreed. I was trying to point out to him that there can/are many things the person has to worry about us having when we c/r.

Most of the time when I am doing it is I have a weak hand (not doing it calling a raise OOP though, so probably a limped pot and in the blind), say TPWK and no idea if my hand is good or not. I will c/c, lead turn. But if they raise I am folding, if they call I am checking and hoping it gets checked behind. Basically trying to get to SD cheaper when they do not fold. Everything is not a constant, but it normally something like that.

If they are just hyper aggressive no matter what, then I will either play much more aggressively towards them if they are the type that can fold, or let them hang themselves when I do have a hand.

This isn't a move that you need to add to your arsenal. I'm sure there's times when it works but probably very player dependent.

Hero in BB
UTG: 17/14 CBET:100

Dealt to Hero TT

UTG: Raises 4x, 7 folds, Hero Callls

Flop: 852

Hero checks, UTG bets 7BBs, Hero Calls

Turn: 3

Hero Bets 3/4 pot



one situation where I like float and lead turn better than C/R

I like to float against people that cbet a lot because they will usually turn their hand face up after the turn. If I have a hand like 99 and the flop is K72 I will check/call the flop and turn against most regs. You have to allow them to bluff and they will never continue bluffing if you donk the turn. If they bet 3 streets, they have the K.

I feel like raising the flop allows him to play perfectly. If you are 3 bet, you are toast, and if he folds he can't make a mistake. The same goes with donking the turn. You allow him to never make a mistake because he will just fold out hands that you have crushed.

You likely had the best hand the entire time leading the turn takes away any chance of him 2 barrel bluffing.

yes but a c/r on the flop here prevents us from getting any value because we arent folding out better, and nothing worse is calling: we are basically praying for opponent to have Axs

I dont think players two barrel bluff at micro stakes enough to warrant letting a player have the ability to check back and get a free river card when many cards hurt us

ie: Any J,Q,K,A any club, any 4

this isnt a float, and i dont get why u wud check-call lead unless u have some sick read on ur opponent and/or are trying to enduce a bluff raise from him.


an example of a float oop wud b more like:

btn raises, we flat KQo in bb. flop AT3, we c/c. turn 2 ch/ch, 8 river we lead.

fair enough, i was thinkign of a situation where i would call a pfr, call a flop bet as a float but i guess its not considered that.

i gave my reasons for why i would lead there. that i suppose is another convo in itself

yeah i mean if he is an opponent who wont 2 barrel draws but will check them back, then leading is best to get value from them since i guess people will call to see a river.

c/c the flop isnt a float tho because likelihood is u have the best hand since he can be value betting worse and cbetting bluffs.

The scenarios discussed ITT are actually 2 different situations. In the OP, he was talking about c/c with a hand that has some equity but currently has no showdown value. The TT example is a hand with showdown value but almost no equity when behind. Before I get to a comparison of these spots, we should really backtrack to the preflop play.

When you call with a hand like TT or JTs out of the blinds, you need to have a reason for doing so and a plan for the rest of the hand. Do you think you have sufficient implied odds to make such a call worthwhile? If not, then you should be thinking about how you are going to make these hands profitable. One way is to take the pot away later in the hand; another is to 3-bet preflop. If you can't find a way to make the hand profitable overall, then folding is the move with the highest EV.

Let's say that you figure that between implied odds and future fold equity, you can make more of a profit playing your hand post-flop than you can 3-betting preflop, folding preflop or calling preflop and playing fit/fold on the flop. Come up with a plan for taking the pot down postflop or from getting value unimproved.

When you have a hand that you can c/r and have decent equity when called, often a flop c/r is going to be better than c/c. This is because you have a chance of realizing your FE before your pot equity gets cut in half on the turn. Also, you build the pot for when you hit gin, making it easier to get stacks in. You have no showdown value, so you aren't really worried about bloating the pot. You should of course measure the EV of c/r against the EV of donking the flop - think about how Villain is likely to react with his air, his mid-strength hands, and his strong hands (and how that compares to his actions if you check to him). As for c/c, I wouldn't be doing it with the idea of donking the turn; rather my intention would be to learn something about Villain's hand on the turn and see if I could take it away on the river. Think about how certain turn/river cards change the dynamic of the hand and make your perceived range seem stronger than Villain's range.

With respect to hands with showdown value, turning them into a bluffs with a flop c/r will often show an immediate profit, but then you are pretty much screwed when your c/r gets called, and you have lost your chance to get value from a second barrell. If you think that Villain is going to make it hard for you to show down cheaply, then you might as well just try to end the hand then and there. If Villain is the type to give up after a c-bet, then c/c will not only give you the chance to win the c-bet but may allow you to get value on the river. Now you want to think about the cards that could come that would make Villain more likely to call a river bet.

ok, agreed

tl;dr but i did read the first line of the last paragraph which i disagree with


I dont think C/R the flop in the TT scenario will show immediate profit. Its a WA/WB scenario for the most part and i dont think we make enough money from folds to make up for the humongous chunks of change we are losing when raised or called on that flop

Well if you don't think you are getting enough folds (e.g. the flop hits Villain's range), then just fold yourself and move on to the next hand. There's no point in c/c in that situation either.

no i just think a c/r in that situation is bad because we are folding out the hands we get value from and the hands that have us crushed arent going anywhere here


note* in TT situation curious as to thoughts on Turn C/R turn c/c