I've seen the term "reverse float" used a few places online (not in this forum tho), but I can't quite tell if it's the same thing as a plain ol' donk.

Is there a difference between the two terms? Does a reverse float imply deception, whereas a donk is oop bet either for value as well as a bluff? Not sure. Thanks.

Floating is calling a bet in position, planning to bluff on a later street.

Reverse floating, is more risky, it's calling a bet out of position, planning to bluff on a later street.

If you reverse float on the flop, you can donk-bet the turn as your bluff.

Ah, ok, them the reverse float requires an intention to bluff later, and you do that with a donk bet on the following round. (Correct me if I'm wrong tho.) Thanks.

You could but it won't be credible. The idea behind it is you checkcall the flop with "top pair" and then when it goes check check on the turn you make your opponent think you don't have air in that spot. If you then bet the river he will fold a lot of the time making this worth while.

Basically you need to play it the same as if you had TP good/medium kicker and only want to put in two bets. If you start donking the turn then potentially 3 bets are going in and then you narrow down your range to two pair+ or air which is much less credible.

You need to look into c-bet flop and c-bet turn stats. If he cbets flop 80% and then 20% turn it is very much profitable to float out of position here because his range will be a lot of air on the river and you can effectively bluff. If he cbets flop 60% and turn 60% you have a much tougher time getting to the point where you can bet and it be credible, if you call flop there you are going to have to fold 60% of the time on the turn which makes it quite a bad deal.

TL;DR: The purpose of floating out of position is to take advantage of someones cbet% that is way too high and won't barrel after that. For instance 16-tabling bad regs that won't realize you are exploiting them.


PS: The other way of taking advantage of a high frequency cbet is to checkraise more. If he cbets 100% he essentially makes the pot bigger without narrowing down his range. Effectively he lowers the stack to pot ratio which means top pair gains value. For instance the pot is 3, he bets 2 with 100% of his range, the pot is now 5 and if you know he cbets 100% of the time then his bet is just creating a bigger pot. Checkraising lighter for value (and with more bluffs) will also deal with high frequency cbettors.

I agree with you. I was just hoping to help him follow posts like this:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/39...float-1415093/

Thanks, Kelvis. This s great.

This makes a lot of sense. I should get in the habit of taking this approach more often. Cool.

Could you explain why a higher SPR gains value? Is it because we're getting closer to staking off, a scenario where the value of pairs increases and draws decrease? I'm assuming if you're both full stacked and the betting was sane (this you still had, say, 80 bb left after the flop), this isn't something you need to worry about, correct?

Incidentally, c/c flop c/r turn can also be a fine line to take when floating on some boards/v some villains. C/c flop donk turn is rarely as good -- are you really c/c flop donking turn with value hands? It looks pretty fos most of the time imo, and you're often valuecutting yourself if you do it with value hands to balance.

You mean lower SPR, right? And yes, pairs gain value with lower spr for a few reasons. First, draws are devalued because implied odds are worse. Second, fewer bets can go in before stacking off, meaning ranges will be weaker.

As an example, someone's bet/3bet/5bet shoving range is going to be much stronger than someone's bet/calling range, and with low spr the possible options in the hand collapse (you're not ever going to see a 5bet shove if the spr is 1, you might see it if it's 35) and ranges become weaker (because people will stack off lighter to fewer bets, generally).

Whoops! Yes, I meant lower. Typo.

Right. Gotcha. Thanks for the response, Duncelanas!

lol there is no such thing as reverse floating if you are floating you are floating oop or ip simple as that