Does position matter when open limping? - Beginning Poker Questions

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Does position matter when open limping?

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06-14-2012 , 09:46 AM

MildMike

newbie

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 15

We all know that when you open raise, you are tighter UTG than on the button.

When you open limp, does position matter as much?

Would someone with an open limp range of 30% have that same range UTG as on the BTN?

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06-14-2012 , 09:52 AM

Cry Me A River

Orange is the new Green

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 23,784

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Originally Posted by MildMike

When you open limp, does position matter as much?

Yes.

Why are you open-limping?

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Originally Posted by MildMike

Would someone with an open limp range of 30% have that same range UTG as on the BTN?

I hope you're not open-limping button!

You're not actually open-limping 30% are you?

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06-14-2012 , 10:04 AM

MildMike

newbie

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 15

No, I "never" open limp, but many do, and I am trying to figure out a range for them.

I know players may open raise with, say, 8% of hands, and then open limp with the next 22%, say.

Therefor, should I assign a tighter open limping range for a player who open limps from UTG than the CO?

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06-14-2012 , 10:09 AM

Cry Me A River

Orange is the new Green

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 23,784

Player's open limping 22% are extremely unlikely to be positionally aware. Check their positional stats and you'll almost certainly see they play (very close to) the same from every position.

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06-14-2012 , 10:16 AM

Bigoldnit

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,397

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cry Me A River

Player's open limping 22% are extremely unlikely to be positionally aware. Check their positional stats and you'll almost certainly see they play (very close to) the same from every position.

I tend to agree with this... In fact, I'm not even sure that players who open limp so frequently even have a well defined, carefully constructed "range" at all. I think the just wait to see their cards and if it's a pocket pair or something that looks pretty like two big cards or suited/connected, they want to see a flop.

The only caveat I might add, is that some players might actually throw in a few monsters into their UTG limping range, so that they can "trap" with a limp reraise. So, if the pot limps around and the UTG limper suddenly starts going crazy post flop, I might suspect a slowplayed overpair...

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06-14-2012 , 10:17 AM

Big_Mick00

Verified Coach MTT

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 8,690

People who limp will be bad at poker so punish them for it they wont know about position etc.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...encies-979484/
will help

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06-14-2012 , 10:23 AM

sheeprustler

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 3,292

There are often plenty good reasons for open limping in sngs where stack sizes are usually less than 20bbs.

I sometimes open limp monsters for value when there is aggressive players behind or open limp the button with medium strength hands against loose passive players because raising creates an awkward pot size.

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06-14-2012 , 05:40 PM

Cry Me A River

Orange is the new Green

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 23,784

Position is always important. Always.

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06-14-2012 , 06:13 PM

arlecchino76

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 1,632

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Originally Posted by sheeprustler

This. Except loose passive player is not easy to find these days.

And when u get , let's say 5 or even 6 handed, blinds get a little bigger and u have fairly tight image at the table u can easily get away with UTG raise with ATC.
That works better vs players that are paying attention, and make sure that u showed strong hands at least twice before that move, and they will give u credit for a big hand.

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06-14-2012 , 11:20 PM

#10

Gunnerz69

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 386

I open limp when i'm first to act with AA or something decent like JTs, then always come over the top if there's a raise. More often you find yourself in a limped pot oop with several people seeing the flop. It's a tough spot.
On the other hand you can win large pots too.
I personally don't like limping unless i'm first to act. Come in with a raise and show some strength. Absolutely hate open limping if you're on the botton or late position.

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06-14-2012 , 11:44 PM

#11

Mr Beer

banned

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 5,965

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunnerz69

I open limp when i'm first to act with AA or something decent like JTs, then always come over the top if there's a raise.

This is awful. I can call cheaply with baby pocket pairs and and stack you when I hit big and fold a bunch of other hands that I would call a bet with but not a 3bet.

Last edited by Mr Beer; 06-14-2012 at 11:59 PM.

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06-15-2012 , 12:01 AM

#12

Mr Beer

banned

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 5,965

Anyway OP, open limping is generally pretty bad and most people who do it do so with weak hands that they want to see a flop with - I agree with the above assessment that they are not likely to be very positionally aware.

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06-15-2012 , 12:41 AM

#13

Gunnerz69

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 386

Yeah i think mixing it up a little is a good thing.
Yeah i wish i could keep track of hands like that. I've def won alot of big pots, but i don't often get too wild with AA on the flop with multiple limpers.

If there's a very aggressive guy behind me to act, i may consider limping.

Personally i dont like limping at all

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06-15-2012 , 12:55 AM

#14

Cry Me A River

Orange is the new Green

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 23,784

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunnerz69

Yeah i think mixing it up a little is a good thing.

Not for anyone asking advice in this forum.

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06-15-2012 , 01:09 AM

#15

BlackRain

veteran

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 2,040

Players who are open limping a lot are invariably recreational players. They don't know what position is and they certainly don't know what a range is. So they can literally have any hand that that looks pretty to them from any position.

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06-15-2012 , 01:58 AM

#16

Mr Beer

banned

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 5,965

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunnerz69

i don't often get too wild with AA on the flop with multiple limpers.

Yes because small pot multiway with an overpair vs. people drawing to monsters = bad scenario. You either win a little or lose a lot or fold so exploitatively you may as well not have had AA to begin with.

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06-15-2012 , 05:03 AM

#17

Studebaker Hawk

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,783

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunnerz69

I open limp when i'm first to act with AA or something decent like JTs, then always come over the top

Gah, I hate limp re-raisers on the one hand, but on the other hand they probably save me some money because they are basically saying 'lol i haz aces and trapped you'.
Or occasionally a bluff. What the hell, I'll give them 3bb and let them feel like Negreanu for a while.

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I personally don't like limping unless i'm first to act.

What? So you dislike others doing it but like doing it yourself.

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06-15-2012 , 10:05 AM

#18

Dondarrion

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 123

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunnerz69

I personally don't like limping unless i'm first to act.

In general (not saying there may not be situations when this isn't the case), doesn't limping become "better" as more people limp in before you? Pot odds and what-not.

Honest question.

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06-15-2012 , 11:26 AM

#19

Studebaker Hawk

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,783

I'll occasionally limp behind several limper from CO or button with speculative hands such as low pocket pairs, suited high cards, high connectors etc, because of the high implied odds.
But then I play pretty fit or fold with them.

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06-15-2012 , 12:44 PM

#20

arlecchino76

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 1,632

Quote:

Originally Posted by Studebaker Hawk

Yes, and imo this is the only scenario when limping not only makes sense but is possibly the best play.
It does require good post flop skills to be profitable.

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06-15-2012 , 02:55 PM

#21

Exothermic

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 16,804

general theory behind open limping= not a hand strong enough to raise or opponent does not feel comfortable raising the hand but wants to see flop.... this then leads to passive play & takes initiative away from you & makes it so that you have to actually not only hit equity on the flop but make your hand on later streets to make $ & yea unless ppl are paying you off huge often open limping wont be profitable given that fact

so now to answer your question ide have to say yes it does influence ranges somewhat.... alot of fish will steal wide sb vs bb but yet limp kjo utg, so subtle changes like that occurs but its not a big deal really

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