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Is this a correct fold? Is this a correct fold?

08-19-2011 , 02:06 PM
This hand has been bothering me. Not sure if I've made the correct decision. Need your opinions. How can I play this hand better?

BB's HUD looks like this:
VP20/PF6/FB0
AF3.5/CB100/FC67
W$SF60/Wts30/W$S67

    Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #10311922

    Hero (SB): $25.53 (510.6 bb)
    BB: $14.55 (291 bb)
    MP: $6.64 (132.8 bb)
    CO: $5 (100 bb)
    BTN: $1.39 (27.8 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with Q Q
    3 folds, Hero raises to $0.15, BB calls $0.10

    Flop: ($0.30) 7 6 3 (2 players)
    Hero bets $0.29, BB calls $0.29

    Turn: ($0.88) 7 (2 players)
    Hero bets $0.42, BB calls $0.42

    River: ($1.72) A (2 players)
    Hero checks, BB bets $0.85, Hero folds

    Spoiler:
    Results: $1.72 pot ($0.08 rake)
    Final Board: 7 6 3 7 A
    Hero mucked Q Q and lost (-$0.86 net)
    BB mucked and won $1.64 ($0.78 net)



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    Is this a correct fold? Quote
    08-19-2011 , 02:08 PM
    Call on the river after the check he has reason to bluff, do you really think he was floating with Ax?
    The way you played it you'll see busted draws in his range 80% of the time and the ocasional 7x or fh
    Is this a correct fold? Quote
    08-19-2011 , 02:28 PM
    When you check to induce a bluff, you need to call the bluff.
    Is this a correct fold? Quote
    08-19-2011 , 02:33 PM
    I would not have folded that. He flat called you bet after bet. Than you check on the river after the A falls and he bets. Of course he's going to bet, even moreso when you just check your queens after raising PF and betting on the flop. I also think I would have bet more after the flop, but that's just me. Your Qs had that board dominated after the flop. I think I'm betting more.
    Is this a correct fold? Quote
    08-19-2011 , 02:35 PM
    lol, snap call.
    Is this a correct fold? Quote
    08-19-2011 , 02:38 PM
    Ah, the old ace on the river that scares you into checking. There's a fair chance you're beaten, but your check is giving villain the perfect opportunity to take the pot with any two cards.
    Is this a correct fold? Quote
    08-19-2011 , 02:41 PM
    Agreed, there is a fair chance you are beaten with that A, which is exactly why I want to take that pot down before an overcard falls. After the flop was the best time to try and do it.
    Is this a correct fold? Quote
    08-19-2011 , 02:53 PM
    Bet on the river. If he comes over the top of you he has the ace or trip 7s so you fold. If he calls or folds you will most likely have him beat. The way he bet half pot on the river tells me he might have had something like 8,9 and was making a last ditch attempt at winning the hand by making you fold.
    Is this a correct fold? Quote
    08-19-2011 , 02:56 PM
    Firstly, credit to you for considering a fold here and not falling into the common trap of getting married to big pairs and calling when obviously beaten.

    This only has to be a bluff 1 in 4 times for a call to be +EV. Although there are not a missed draws in villain's range that you beat I still think:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cry Me A River
    When you check to induce a bluff, you need to call the bluff.
    How does villain view you? For example, how often do you steal from the SB?

    Your weak turn bet after potting the flop suggests "I am folding to a raise".
    Is this a correct fold? Quote
    08-19-2011 , 03:53 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cry Me A River
    When you check to induce a bluff, you need to call the bluff.
    .
    Is this a correct fold? Quote
    08-19-2011 , 03:54 PM
    i will agree you have to call the river as he keep calling you..

    he might had 6A but i think in the long run you would win
    Is this a correct fold? Quote
    08-20-2011 , 03:27 AM
    This is an easy call versus most players. It's an interesting example of a spot though where there are some players I would fold to because this is actually a really bad spot to bluff. Checking the river strongly suggests you have showdown value because if you had a completely hopeless hand (say JT) the ace would be an ideal card to launch your own bluff.
    Is this a correct fold? Quote
    08-20-2011 , 04:02 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cry Me A River
    When you check to induce a bluff, you need to call the bluff.
    Exactly.

    And I'll add when you bet on that river and he raises you big you need to fold.

    I would raise more pre, then your pot sized bet on flop is much more of a hammer.
    Is this a correct fold? Quote
    08-20-2011 , 06:32 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kboy420
    I would not have folded that. He flat called you bet after bet. Than you check on the river after the A falls and he bets. Of course he's going to bet, even moreso when you just check your queens after raising PF and betting on the flop. I also think I would have bet more after the flop, but that's just me. Your Qs had that board dominated after the flop. I think I'm betting more.
    I was doing a little pot controlling by not betting too much. I didn't want to play a big pot after the board paired on the turn. However it does seem like a weak play??? Thoughts?
    Is this a correct fold? Quote
    08-20-2011 , 06:45 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PapaPyrite
    Exactly.

    And I'll add when you bet on that river and he raises you big you need to fold.

    I would raise more pre, then your pot sized bet on flop is much more of a hammer.
    I try to be consistent with my PF raises (3xbb all the way across if no one has entered the pot before me) just to be deceptive with the range of hands I am raising with, but perhaps at this level (micro-stake) people are not observant enough and it wouldn't matter?

    Any advice on the size of PF raises at this level? Should I be adjusting the size of my PFR depending on positions or what hands I am holding?

    Thanks
    Is this a correct fold? Quote
    08-20-2011 , 06:47 PM
    b/f
    Is this a correct fold? Quote
    08-20-2011 , 07:00 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tomux22
    b/f
    I think check call is a more profitable line because you also get value from bluffs.
    Is this a correct fold? Quote
    08-21-2011 , 03:24 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bee926
    I try to be consistent with my PF raises (3xbb all the way across if no one has entered the pot before me)
    Any advice on the size of PF raises at this level?
    3xBB is standard for me too, but it might change in blind vs blind situations. Is it the same scheme in full ring as 6-max? Anyone got any advice there?
    QQ and JJ are the two hands where I sometimes break the rule and open-raise to 4xBB (+1BB per limper), mainly because I don't really want a caller (I can be a scaredy cat sometimes), as you can end up in spots just like your post.

    Last edited by ArtySmokes; 08-21-2011 at 03:39 PM. Reason: typos etc
    Is this a correct fold? Quote
    08-21-2011 , 03:31 PM
    Nobody else wants a bigger turn bet? It's not like there are lots of 7s in villain's range, and if he was calling PSB on the flop then I can't see why he wouldn't again on the turn. I'm looking for value from 88-JJ basically.
    Is this a correct fold? Quote
    08-21-2011 , 05:11 PM
    To me it looks like he flopped a draw or a gut and mid pair like 46o. Remember hes in the big blind. Youve lead out the whole way, why stop on the river? i would do a small defensive bet on the river to keep the pot small, around 60c) and checking just says "ok if you bet i have to fold"
    Is this a correct fold? Quote
    08-21-2011 , 08:35 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by halftilt
    Nobody else wants a bigger turn bet? It's not like there are lots of 7s in villain's range, and if he was calling PSB on the flop then I can't see why he wouldn't again on the turn. I'm looking for value from 88-JJ basically.
    Yes that would be just as effective if not more so than my original suggestion of making pre raise and flop bets larger. The turn card is a good card for us and likely does not help villain so pot size bet again works very well.

    Bee926 - I agree with balancing your raises but if there are situations that call for a certain size increase/decrease then I don't think that would affect your overall strategy with standard sized raises. It's the practice of usually/nearly always doing the same thing that balances, not that every single time you must do the same thing. And honestly at micro it's probably not as important to do this as you noted. I would only make the raise larger in a few situations and not often, but TT JJ and QQ in certain spots are difficult and I may raise more preflop.

    But the suggestion halftilt made works well given how the cards came off.
    Is this a correct fold? Quote
    08-21-2011 , 10:24 PM
    Thanks guys. Your posts have been very helpful!
    Is this a correct fold? Quote
    08-21-2011 , 11:01 PM
    I can't believe I'm the first to say this but the turn is a check-call and its not even close.

    As played, river is a call.
    Is this a correct fold? Quote
    08-21-2011 , 11:20 PM
    Turn bet sizing is terrible. As played call river bet.
    Is this a correct fold? Quote
    08-21-2011 , 11:51 PM
    You were probably beat, by A9s, AT or AJ etc but gotta make them calls if you lose the hand so be it, but have to make those calls and I would have contemplated check raising and representing trip 7.. probably better to have bet strong on the river. As a weak Ace from a passive player might have been pushed off.
    Is this a correct fold? Quote

          
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