I'm interested to see how more experienced players think about this. Last night I was playing in a pretty wild game with a pretty aggressive LAG guy in it and I was folding a lot of good hands I was being dealt in good positions, not because I was overly afraid to play them down the board but because I didn't feel the climate was right for them and my position was good considering what was going on. I ended up isolating this single guy later on in position with a marginal hand and used my position and tighter image as 'my starting standard' as opposed to specific cards, if that analogy makes sense.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, do you find yourself punting most opportunities, or will you lay down some hands if you're dealt something ok after you've just won a few pots (to keep your image, for example)..?

I feel like this is important, but I haven't heard it talked about.

LAG are scary players to start with, but once you start analysing their play and certain "tells" etc (how often does he fold to a 3bet? How well does he react when the pressure is given back to him? etc), then you should be able to crush him.

However if I got good hands, and position, I will play them. Because I know the LAG player will more then likely give me, the tighter player, his chips by the end of that round.

He hasn't got Aces every time he raises. That might seem obvious, but at the table and when someone raises so rapidly so much, you'll be thinking he has premiums all the time. Stop thinking that, use position, and come back with aggression and pressure and you should conquer him.

And just because you win a few pots doesn't mean you HAVE to fold your decent hands. However if you feel like you should be balancing your range out then for sure, go for it. If this is cash, then this is viable. However if this is a tournament you should never do that, and you should always play oyur good hands.

Like the Camel said, once you start figuring out their plays, you should be able to come up with a strategy to counter it. For example a LAG I was playing against was folding to 3 and 4 bets when he had position but his holdings were weak, but 5 betting when he did not have position and his holdings were weak. When he called in position or re-raised out of position, the range he was on could be identified and exploited.

While your image is part of your game, if you're playing like a nit you're missing out on opportunities to win money. Play tight against a LAG and push back when you have it. Eventually you will find the right rhythm against the individual.

I prefer to let the cards dictate my image instead of trying to control my image. If you thought those hands that you folded were unprofitable to play, then sure fold. If you thought that later marginal hand was profitable to play, then sure play it. If you were folding profitable hands because you thought it would help your image, I think this is a mistake. If you played that later marginal hand because you thought there was an abundance of fold equity due to your image, this could be good or bad depending on the circumstances. The most likely scenario is that nobody was paying attention to your image. Even if they were paying attention and had noticed that you fold a lot preflop, they're still gonna pick up playable hands quite often.

One of my favorite poker quotes of all time:

"You can't always rely on reading the player, but you can always rely on reading the situation."

-I forget who said it.

Also, this:

Great, great answers guys, thanks for the feedback.

I'll have to keep this in mind. Playing a LAG can be a bit of a scary thing but I feel like I'm starting to get better at reading the strategies. I also feel like playing them in position with halfway good hands is a good strategy because you're betting a wide range which, if I'm not wrong = EQUITY.
The thing about noticing their 'tells' I,E, 3 betting in certain situations from position or 5 betting from out meaning they can be weak is something I didn't know much about, is this something you get good at by playing or did you learn that through information resources about the game?

Agreed. This was cash and I figured that I'd very soon get a good opportunity against one of these wild players, and I wanted position and to thin the field when I did it. And I played a strategy I liked against a ruling LAG which I'm happy with, irrespective of the newbile errors I made during it. Glad to get some confirmation I was on the right track taking the wide range into respect.

Sorry I'm new. Do you mean he'd fold if he was raised (a 3rd bet) 3/4 times, and then his holdings were weak, but he'd do a 5th bet when he was weak? As to say, he'd be a lot more aggressive on his re-raising when he had nothing, but was narrower when he started playing more carefully with the position calls and the 2bets out of position?



That's interesting, don't bank too much on building fold equity. I will remember that. The reason I was doing it was because I was cautious and didn't want to get into a situation I felt uncomfortable with (being new). I felt that if I picked the right moment I could play with more confidence and a better head.

You fold hands with the assumption people have changed the way they view how you play.

That is often correct but most people don't act on this and adjust to you. If they see someone pick up pot after pot they will probably notice but don't actually do anything about it. So most of the time nothing about their play has changed but you are now folding profitable hands.

It is difficult to play marginal hands when you're new to the table and you don't have reads. Then once you get reads, more hands usually become playable. I think you're doing it right.

I suggest that you put in lots of work with an equity calculator. Equilab is free and it has lots of cool features. Then next time, you won't need reads. You'll be able to play a strong default position based strategy. As you develop reads, you may find that some hands that you would usually play become unprofitable, or you may find that some hands that you would usually fold become profitable.

All that said, I keep thinking of this part from your op:

I think trying to control your image is a mistake in almost every instance. Instead, you should look for ways to exploit your image. For example:

If I have a loose passive image, I slowplay more and value bet less.

If I have a tight passive image, I bluff more and value bet less.

If I have a loose aggressive image, I value bet more and bluff less.

By letting the cards and correct play dictate your image, you never have to worry about "keeping your image." It's all about maximizing profits in this hand, on this street, against this player, with whatever hand you hold at the time.

Good answers above^

I would add that knowing how your image is perceived is useful, but you should also be aware that certain players (particularly LAG players) don't care so much about other players' images.

I feel like everyone has a weight they apply to a villain's image and it can differ wildly in lower stakes.

Both. There are books on physical tells, these are a good baseline, as amateur players will always have these tells. They become less reliable though the better the player.

However, with "tells" and "reads", You SHOULD NOT be looking for specific things that the books say are weak or strong. What you should be looking at is how a player acts and tendencies they have in certain situations, as they might have a completely different tell for weakness then the books will describe.

These books give good examples, but they moreso should be teaching you how to be more observational at the table.

Max Caro has a book on tells, and Phil Helmuth (sigh) has a book called "read em and reap".

Again, use these books to teach you how to analyze players and come to your OWN conclusions. This is one thing I feel players get wrong alot of the time.

And it takes practice. Lots of it. Playing many different players all the time means you'll be seeing lots of different tendencies and whatnot. Just get the practice in and you'll be sweet!


In terms of beating a LAG, the strategy is simple. On a super tight table, loosen up and be aggressive. On a super loose table, tighten up and be SUPER AGGRESSIVE.

This is the gist of it, and should be a good start for your thought process. Expand on that, and again you'll notice your game increasing by leaps and bounds.

I'll have got equilab, ill have to start punching more hands into the calculator so I can get a better idea of the value of things.


I like this a lot. Don't build image, be wary of it and adapt accordingly when the time is right. nice.


Good way of looking at it. Well that's what I have thought in other games, if I've won a few in a row and it's a marginal hand I'm concerned about going in. Could this be fair if you're against more opportunistic or reactive opponents? Also I think you sorta answered that in your second part, but food for thought.

I will definitely remember this, and more so the concept of 'weight' they apply to image. Interesting concept.

Ok sure thing well Ill just stick to practicing and maybe check out some of thse books

Exactly.

The only times that I'm concerned with keeping an image will be influenced by the training effect. For example, if I've been beating up on a tight player's big blind when I'm on the button by raising very weak hands, then sometimes it will be correct to pass on a minimally profitable river bluff. This is because I want him to keep on folding preflop, but if he sees that I've open raised 32s when he's in the blind, then he's likely to adjust by calling more preflop. The opportunity cost of him not folding as much as I want him to preflop might outweigh the small profit of the river bluff. So in that spot I'll check and muck when he shows his hand first as is the showdown order.

Spots like that are few and far between. In the vast majority of cases, you should just try to make the most +ev play available.

yeah, right. Damn this stuff get's deep doesn't it, when it comes to maximizing correct play and EV. It's a deep rabbit hole.

Ok well from now on I'll just think of it as nothing more than:

'what is the most profitable (long run) play on this hand, this street, vs this player in this situation, and with the a consideration to my image but not as a Number 1 priority'

if your going to stack off its a pretty good idea to have a good reason as to why your stacking off to this villain. Its also good to know about villains bluff ranges what does he double and tripple barrel with, what is he capable of calling with on the river. Don't let your opponent put you in tough spots, make as least mistakes possible and capitalize on his over aggression and looseness.

Don't adjust your preflop play based on your image IMO, because a) most bad players aren't paying attention; b) most of the players that do pay attention are bad and make bad adjustments; and c) 'image', 'game flow' etc tend to be mere justifications for bad play based on tiny sample (read: irrelevant) observations.