If calling 67o vs this kind of action is already a good situation for you then I assume you play every situation that is better than this one. That is a lot of hands that will ultimately mean you play a ridiculously high number of hands.

Bluffing a PFR who has less than two times the pot behind, lol.

Stop justifying this horrible play.

It's a low stakes casino table so anything is possible, BUT a fairly short stack open raises UTG in the OP. I would usually , likely take this as a pretty strong holding. Calling , even in position , with 67os seems very optimistic to me. I still think the call pre was made mostly because of him having a big stack. This kind of play, if done often in common situations, will cost you lots of chips IMHO. The fact that the V hit the flop perfectly and stacked the KK likely will not help his future decision making either.

his logic is sound, his numbers are completely off

/thread

Very unlikely.

This is Beginners Forum, not everyone who posts terrible advice is trolling...

You have a fundamental misunderstanding on how to play a cash game. There isn't always going to be another hand. This isn't a tournament where you have 98% of the chips in play where just blindly going all in or calling the opponent's all in is probably the right play. This is a cash game. The guy can win the hand and get up and walk away.

So what that means is that when you put $20 in the pot preflop with a garbage hand, over infinite trials, you're losing at least 5 to 10 bucks. You seem like the type of thinker that only remembers the times he stacks someone and runs a stack up. Yeah, there are nights where you run good and you can build up a stack, but while doing so, you're probably dumping $20 here, $15 there, adding up to hundreds by the end of your session that would still be sitting there in your stack if you hadn't "prospected" with these trash hands where you knowingly put your money in while you're behind.


The thinking I have quoted from you also has hints of Martingale in there. No exactly, but in some way. Look up Martingale System and I think you'll understand what I mean. I promise you that if you're not actually trolling and you actually think the things you have shared with us, you're dumping money into the game that you don't need to. It's a leak. Even winning players have leaks. Everyone's poker game is a big bucket full of tons of holes. Some buckets can still get some of the water from the well to the fire, but every time they plug a leak, it does a better job the next time.


We're genuinely just trying to help.

lol this gonna be awesome

Yes, my button calling range is wide.

It's because this is a low stakes casino table that I think this is quite likely incorrect.

I still think that most folks at these stakes will need something that looks good to them to open UTG. And in this case it would not take much to be better than 67os that the CO holds, so that is why I rate it a very optimistic call.

Since I respect your posting usually , I would not mind if you would elaborate on why you see it differently.

It's because it's a low stakes table that it is correct much more often than not. I'd guesstimate that 90% of players at LLS NLHE raise their top x% of hands and limp everything else. The only variable is what x is. But depending on the player, that number is often in the single-digits.

I fully agree that the calling range in any spot should adjust to the read on the opponent. We have no information on the opponent other than he was UTG and fairly short stacked.

Maybe our experiences at low stakes live are just widely different.

Yeah could be. I just think that considering the short stack UTG to be opening very light is optimistic (not impossible of course). I also think that considering 67os to be either already best over him , OR to be a hand that will flop stronger a significant amount of the time is also very optimistic. That is why I don't like the call in the OP. Other opinions besides mine, have the right to exist and may even have valid points, often do LOL.

Omfggggggg.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahah


Csoudleridioit or whatever your name is you have to be trolling.

Linked Dnegs Hendon mob. Then berated trny players.

But it's funnier because he shouldnt be trolling having typed all this.

is like set mining >>> implied odds are important

I assume English is not your first language. Thank you for trying.

I think you are asking......

Is implied odds important when considering whether you should set mine?

The answer is absolutely yes.



ZaV, I will ask you a question now..... how often to do flop a set when holding a pocket pair? As an example: 1 in 3 times? 1 in 5 times? 1 in ??? times.....how many times will you flop a set and continue the hand*?

*(of course there will be times you are holding a pocket pair, not flop a set....but still continue on to the turn)

This sums it up perfectly IMO... I didn't really read much past this.

Playing in game a few weeks a go someone flopped a straight on me with 84off when I hit a set of 7's. I asked him why he called a raise with that and he just laughed and said I was bored. At least he didn't try defend what he did.

Please for the love of god don't do that ever again. You probably can't imagine how bad that is but it is really really bad.

You want people to call raises with junk. Asking them why they did it can sometimes change the way they play. It is a really good question to ask yourself but it is so dangerous to ask a fish that because he might actually improve his play.

I struggle with this all the time, but there are ways to talk about it less directly .. like "That's an interesting call PF, is that your wife's birthday?"

Is it better to keep their range wide and not know where they are or better to 'help' them play more ABC and know where they are at? Finding out it was just a 'gamble' could be good for Hero's mind as well in a way .. at least he didn't see a tell from Hero that let him know he had one over!! GL

It is better to keep their range wide and it is not even remotely close.

I feel so vindicated right now, so thank you all.

In a recent $1-$2 hand, I made a large (for this table) pfr with AA, UTG. Basically: I flopped a set, and ended up heads up and all-in. The only hand that could beat me was 34 (for a straight), and I just did not believe the villain could have called my pfr with that. We both had medium stacks.

He turns over 34. But that's not the part that's still bugging me. That's poker, right?

The part that bugs me is that in retelling this to a friend, friend defended this guys play because, while he doesn't play that way himself, "that's how you stack someone with aces". My counter-argument has been exactly what you people have been saying. It cannot possibly be a long-term EV+ strategy, and I want my friend to admit that the guy made a stupid call. So - ha HA!

He , your friend, is likely just needling you and not being serious. If he actually thought this to be true , then I suggest you stop trying to convince him and play a lot of poker with him.

I mean, it's a total cooler, but only because you had a set. If you just had the naked aces, how confident would you feel that you had the best hand on a 2, 5, 6 rainbow board if a non-thinking player starts playing back at you really hard? Would you just say "There's no way he called a preflop raise with 34o, or 25o or something"...? (obv maybe he has a set of 5s or something)

I'm just saying that there is something to be said for hands getting to a point where you have to look at the broader picture of the betting that's taking place and forget how unlikely it is that they played that hand preflop and at least think about the possibility.

If we assume:

a) 67o v KK,

b) KK shoves all flops,

c) 67o continues past the flop only with 2 pair or better (no draws),

d) and whoever is ahead on the flop wins the hand (to keep it simple),

then the ev looks something like this:

(.05 x 100) - (.95 x 15) = ev

-9.25 = ev

This is not a good call.


It is the Effective Stack that matters in a cash game, not who has the biggest stack.

I love going to tables with a lot of big stacks on them. It just means i have the opportunity to win more money.


--klez

Not meaning to derail but a 2,5,6 board is different to an A,2,5 board if someone's stacking off

Preferably at high stakes