Hi everyone, so since I'm new to poker, I've been posting here a lot, and playing even more.

- couple of local casino live tournaments
- online (winamax) freerolls and SNG

NLHE

I feel more and more comfortable playing tournaments and I've had encouraging results so far, adjusting my play as I learn and as I go.

on winamax (don't play on any other site as for now), they have these "double or nothing" SNG (they probably have these on other sites too) where half the table doubles up their buy in, and I seem to be doing just fine in these.

I'm more and more consistent in making the money in freerolls (best was 21st out of 8k players, short handed tournament)

And the confidence is starting to come in tournaments.



But I couldn't make a buck on a cash game to save my life

I'm not trying any sort of fancy play, and microstakes have obviously very little impact on my ability to make a living, but there seems to be a block for me playing cash games, that I struggle to overcome.

I usually am not afraid to be agressive in tournaments, but my balls seem to just shrink back inside whenever I play a cash game. I couldn't get a cent from the biggest whale to save my miserable life (jk, I'm just fine)

it's like 20cts raise means a million bucks to me, and I realize how ridiculous it sounds.

how could I overcome this?

I'm the same buddy, cash games I find a bit pedestrian even at the micro's where I play all my poker, like yourself I'm only really starting out. I've ran really well in cash, playing TAG poker at times , running up a good amount of BB's, only too end up staying too long and before I know it , I'm out my depth and I'm the fish lol

Tournaments I really enjoy, Deepstack my favourite, I think they give you a real chance to play a higher percentage of hands, not only the best ones and too play from different position's at times, as your sort of forced to play due to blinds rising and ante's, I think that's the real attraction for the likes of us just starting out, you get too try new approaches to situation's from stuff you learn either on table or elsewhere, would be a lot harder to try any of this in a cash game imho

It sort of sent me towards tourney play, which I love and have a real desire to beat one level at a time, and by that I don't even mean the limits lol I mean the four quarters of each tourney. I first played on a small field uk based site, then looked at PS, the size of the fields blew my , I deposited and blew my deposit in very little time, the game was so different, from what I experienced at first site. Eventually I read more about the game and realised I would progress quicker at stars due to the amount of games available and the lower cost per game,

I'm now at the point where I can cash minimal on my best days, had a couple of high places after deeper runs and am very happy to pay to learn as I go, not bothered with bank rolling so far as its easier to deposit and play, if I get a win I play it all back in, the variance is far to high in these games for me too bankroll it as yet, maybe when I blink that first final table cash out I will make that my starting role, but I think it will be a while yet for me anyhow lol

I do have an urge once I'm better at tourneys to have a set roll and play my way up from NL 1/2c on stars, maybe using Blackrain79 or Grinders Manual for guidance, maybe playing say four hours a day five days a week, more of the bug bites and I make progress, think that's the great thing about cash games you can see the progress as you move up the limits,

Way I see it at present the Tourneys although higher variance offer a more fun learning area for me personally, you get too see so much action and try out new things, cause you see situations come up time and time again, you learn to deal with the crushing sick feeling when it goes wrong on last card and your out, hell I can have that four times a day in tourneys lol

I think I lack the true discipline to be a cash player at present lol but its something I definitely wish to address one day but for now its all about getting that first big win at the micro tourneys

Good Luck with your journey mate, I've enjoyed your threads keep on keeping on

Read this

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...37/index7.html

Amazing reads and thanks for the messages, I have read a lot of this, and in between a couple of free rolls (after my 21st place during the week end in 6 max free roll, made 9th yesterday, same 6 max free roll, man, I just love shorthanded games)

So I gave it a try, Full ring, NL2 cash game, at first I didn't do so well, open raised a few hands, got nothing on the flop, or not good enough, had to fold and lose some money, went from 2€ to 1.5€, at which point I tell myself "it's just 50 cents, man, relax"

went on to go back up to 2.30€ then that happened

No Limit Hold'em $0,01/$0,02
Winamax Poker
8 players


Stacks:
UTG+1 - UTG+1 ($2,64)
MP - MP ($2,04)
BB - BB ($2,00)
MP2 - MP2 ($2,65)
CO - CO ($4,13)
BTN - Hero ($1,83)
SB - SB ($2,01)
BB - BB ($3,28)

Preflop: ($0,05, 8 players) Hero is BTN with J J
UTG+1 raises to $0,06, 1 fold, BB calls $0,04, 2 folds, Hero calls $0,06, 2 folds

Flop


Turn


River


Showdown and personal reflection on the hand

Now I realized something while replaying the hand

made up for it earlier today, went to a shorthanded table rather than FR

No Limit Hold'em $0,01/$0,02
Winamax Poker
5 players


Stacks:
UTG - UTG ($2,19)
CO - CO ($4,62)
BTN - BTN ($6,01)
SB - SB ($2,00)
BB - Hero ($2,06)

So I stole a few blinds, folded a few hands, many of my PF raises (3x) weren't called, even tho I had a few good hands and wanted to play.

Preflop: ($0,03, 5 players) Hero is BB with T T
UTG calls $0,02, CO calls $0,02, BTN calls $0,02, 1 fold, Hero checks

So this situation was unusual, this was the first time I saw the table limp pretty much all around, i was sitting in the BB with pocket tens, I decided to just check, see the flop and proceed from there. I thought this was a good move, since I was in the SB, just checked in a limped pot, I could have just about anything.

The JJ hand - your bets are incredibly small in relation to the pot (god knows what happened to the converter pre flop making everything out of order) - why? You're just giving anyone on a draw the odds to hit every single street.

The TT hand - raise pre, flop bet is fine, but why are you flatting? You have the exact situation you want, someone raising your bet when you have a set, which is very close to a minraise as well. Get more money in the pot. The rest of the hand makes no sense whatsoever. This is the micros, where you make money by getting a good hand and betting, c/c then lead the river small and not jam over his river raise is crazy

well, there are a few (bad) reasons why I don't bet more

1. I'm still trying to get comfortable playing with € rather than chips, even if the amounts are so tiny and make no difference in my life whatsoever.

2. I'm trying more and more to size the bets relative to the pot, but in these games, opponents get spooked easily.



Played a NL5 cashgame today, shorthanded again, somewhat felt more comfortable there for some weird reason

I'm going to review my plays with your advice and adjust, thanks

It takes different skills to beat tournaments compared to cash games. No one in cash is under pressure to make a big move with a mediocre hand. As for the first hand, on the flop you need to raise more if you are going to make a raise. You make too small of a bet on the turn if your goal is to close the hand down. You offered nearly pot odds to call if the villain had a FD. Finally, you made a weak attempt at a blocking bet. I know some books promote blocking bets, but I think they are useless. It just shows weakness and everything better was going to raise.

FWIW, the villain in that hand played terribly and you bailed him out of his bad play. If he moves up, he's going to find he isn't going to get paid off like that.

I think that one of the biggest things is not going all in with good hands. I got so used to going all in with aa, ak in tournaments and then it felt weird to have to lay those down in spots in chash games. I mostly avoid going all in in cash unless its the nuts, where in tourneys you have to do it all the time.

so the general consensus in this thread would be that I am not betting large enough. Which may very well be right, there are two reasons for that

in no particular order

1. fear from my part, fear to commit (which will be helped with a tight play and no bluffing)
2. the fact that in these games, apparently, most would fold against any bet over .1€, unless they had the absolute nuts.

this is for NL2

I've been playing a couple of NL5 since yesterday, dip my toes, it seems to be pretty much the same, but a little bit "cleaner"


When it comes to tournament, I'm usually doing the 6:30pm 6 max freeroll (approx. 8k players) and I've been consistently ITM, couple of top 40, couple of top 20 and couple of top 10 roughly speaking.

Although I do certainly have a serious leak here.

I know this is not really related and I may probably make a thread on its own, but here's how it usually goes.

1st stage, all in madness, I usually stay clear and play extremely tight in this spot (I only play hands I would be comfortable going all in with)

in this spot, I'm around the average stack, and I start to stack up, it can go from 2x to 4x the average stack

Then after a while, people actually start playing, if it plays normally with open raises, I play along, if it's a limpfest, I like to take part of the limp sometimes, but if I have something that could play better with less people, I'll definitely raise and try and thin out the herd. Usually by that time, I got a tight image that usually lets me steal the blinds every now and again.

But I think my stealing range is still way too tight, higher Ax(s), TT+, because I always keep in mind that I may face an ALL in from one of the blinds, especially since at that stage, there may be some short stacks around who will gamble with any two cards. Usually, I'm around average stack here, rarely in front.

Now if things didn't go well by that time, I may be short stack myself, in which case, it's a game of patience (maybe another issue), and I'll take advantage of good odds on limped pots with position, but other than that, I'll play nothing but my tightest of ranges, since I'll probably face a shove at some point, I need to be able to continue comfortably going all in.

I'll try and steal blinds/antes a little more often if the situation allows me to (especially the stack the guys in the blinds have)

It usually works out just fine and I go back around average stack size by the time we hit the money


But this is where my probable previous mistakes tend to compound, and as for now, I have still very little experience in MTT later stages.

So I'll usually play tight, but probably integrate more Ax hands, and 77+ pairs, I'll definitely take advantage of limped pots if, at that point, my hand is good enough and if I can afford it

But the blinds and antes tend to hurt my stack bad by then, and I probably play way too tight

Sometimes I get lucky and crack into the top 20, once into the top 10, but it feels more and more like gambling than poker when I get there


So while I'm improving, I'm clearly doing some things wrong

I'd love to make a final table and evenutally end up winning one of those, but I seem to have holes in some fundamentals, and other things seem to be working great for me, both in tournaments or in cash games.

But I'm still so much more comfortable in tournaments, playing with chips rather than cash, but I'd love to learn how to get that sweet money from cash games, as a small win in a NL2 or NL5 cash game definitely pays more than a top 20 result in a freeroll MTT, and I'd like to build up a bank roll that would allow me to play tougher games and learn more.

I feel I'm on the right track for cash games, but still far from crushing it, very far

But I see online play as training for live play, ultimately, since it seems to be much tougher online, but I simply love playing live so much. I'm too fearful to sit at the local casino cash game (FR, 2/4 and 5/10), but I plan to play at least one live tournament a month there (BI between 40€ and 100€, there are lots very bad players and a few good ones)

2/4 is no joke bankroll wise, so I want to have a sound game before I dip my toes there live, but I think I could do alright if I work hard enough on fixing my leaks online. but at that point, it will remain the occasional, recreational activity, 2/4 being, money wise, way above what my roll may allow.

I'm aware of the fact you sort of need to open with a higher percentage of hands in the six max game, I usually play around 20% of my hands at this format, picking ones you wouldn't normally open or defend with in a full ring game, again like yourself I've found this sized table suiting me and I've enjoyed the format, even had a couple of minor cashes lol

again like tourneys I think they ideal for us beginner's as there's more action, we get too play more hands and see what works and what doesn't in real time,, far quicker than at a cash tables, I suppose in the long run we will settle into a format that we do best in, for me it will always be tourneys first and foremost, so I try too base all my learning and practise around them, but once the progress comes if it does, I will definitely try the cash game route as the progress is easier to track going up the , plus the sheer discipline aspect attracts me as its so against my nature it will be a massive challenge for me personally, but then again tourney play is as well lol

one thing that has benefitted me is learning to raise strongly and to play aggressive, when I have a strong hole cards or make a hand on the flop, re raising also very profitable and can also save you a fortune at times when they come back over you, and you know your cooked and make a quality laydown

when I look down at cards if I wouldn't re raise them if called or raised from where I'm sat if pushed then I simply pass on playing them, little point in calling if your not happy enough too follow through, once people see this at the table the better ones respect you and your action a little more, which allows you to seek out the weaker ones and exploit them

Hope you have a good weekend pal, Ive had a week off as Ive been busy with pups, hoping to get back amongst it this weekend, I like to play a few of the bigger micro tourneys on a weekend, here's hoping to blink a cash this weekend,

that's how I see it, tournaments equal more hands for the money

but I realize how different they are from cash games

I've been doing some NL2 and also NL5 for the last couple of days, with decent success (regarding to my goals, which were not to lose any money, win a little maybe, basically hang in there and hold my own)

the instant monetary reward is pleasing, and definitely an improvement over tournaments

I'm becoming more comfortable playing with money rather than chips, and I try my best to stick to standard raise sizes, 2.5x to 3x preflop, then proceed in thirds post flop

I play very tight and am able to wait quite alot of time for the right spot to open raise PF with something solid
Post flop, if I hit, I usually bet, if I get a decent chance for a draw, I decide given the actual situation and players involved.

I just don't ever bluff, unless it's an obvious option, but I very rarely bluff, only dip my toes in there

Since I play very tight, it often happens that my open raise makes everybody fold, and it goes the same if I raise post flop.

So there has rarely been opportunities to actually cash well, but since yesterday, I did capitalize on all of them and took home a good pot. So it has been rewarding, to some extent.

NL2 seem easier now and I plan on playing more NL5 shorthanded, see if I can have some success there, the payouts seem a better way to start building a bankroll in case of success, and I can stomach the losses at that level

in contrast, I haven't been doing great in my tourneys, busting out early most of the time

Zoom tables also took some of my money away, I'll probably get back there when I achieve a decent cashgame play, but until then, I'll stay away from zoom games.

Not really. Make the bet you want to make without worrying about spooking people away, the occasional fold is better than giving them perfect odds to call against you. Your goal isn't necessarily to win every hand, it's to make sure that your opponents make bad calls against you.
Not to harp on you too much but if this was true then you can literally print money in these games.

Haven't read it all ....didn't need to. Not buying in full, stressing on non existent irrelevances (like stake sizes, instead of BB's) awful bet sizing...

Get your head in a decent NLHE cash game primer or subscribe to a training site. At the moment you don't have much of a clue (no offence - we've all been there) and trying to piece together the very basics from a forum is not the way to go (too unstructured).

was considering training, could you suggest any over the others?

I've been watching blackrain79 videos on microstakes and trying to do just that

so the results have been pretty cool and as you guys predicted, I do win much, much bigger pots now, but with this style of play and the holes in my game, I do lose quite a bit sometime too now.

but overall, during my latest cash game sessions, the results have been much more positive than they ever have been previously

Done a few zoom too, they went pretty well too. I thought I'd just transfer some money so I can play around more NL5 games, but with what I can extract from NL2 now, I think I'll just build the amount by playing and practicing, so hopefully I'll get better by the time I have enough for NL5.

one step at a time, I've seen it said and time again, its no good jumping up the ladder hoping to find a safer kinder place the game just not like that, the only experience I have of feeling like that is when I get into last say 30 odd players of a Stars micro tourneys, usually been around 2000, 5000 players , and the odd occasion that I do get there, its there that I see raises respected, its also their that you think you have them where you want them and then its often not the case lol I call it 'playing in thin air', lmao, I liken it too climbing a mountain its all good a well when you on the lower bits of the mountain, and still right enough in the middle part, little more trickier, but when you reach the bit where the good players lurk its bloody hard going, that win can seem so far away somedays, other it feels like its gunna be an hour or so later lol

You keep at it pal, one level at a time,

BTW I ve looked at the blackrain stuff myself and its seems ideal for what you want sign up to his site theres a free e book you get and he sends tips every week or so via emai, also heard that the Grinder Manual is top class to crack the field you walking through

My rec

gonna look that up, thanks

Wasn't doing good AT ALL yesterday, either I had no cards, or when I did, it was either everybody folded to my open raise (standard 3x), or the board was in total disagreement with me.

I even think I tilted a little towards the end, called it a night

In spots like this, morale can be low, it's obvious I'm not a "winning player" yet, and I have many holes in my game, but man, yesterday was cruel.

But I guess this is also poker, even the best players have bad days and losses. I'm still highly motivated tho, if it's not a win, then it's a lesson, that's my philosophy.


Oh, and apparently, tournaments also decided to disagree with me, looks like I'm in poker limbo

take the positives from it your learning what does and does not work in real time, your also learning that even when you think or know you got the best of it,, you might well not of, its a cruel game with no guarantees, you just have too ride it out and not allow it too break your resolve to learn and improve, if it was that easy you likely wouldn't be so interested or make the efforts that you have so far,

I've had a week away from it, partially to give myself a rest, I'm looking forward to going back on later this evening, what awaits who knows I will just try to ride it out and make the best moves I can too get me that win, its coming

getting away can be nice, and often a good way to improve (not going to get into this in depth here).

I consider myself, from experience, being solid mentally.

I've been watching long videos especially about the microstakes, trying to apply whatever I learn.

So in my last sessions, I tried to better identify player types and adust my game to them.
I've been using standard bet sizes (usually 3x open raise, 1/2 to 2/3pot in post flop action)

Still dipping my toes in 3betting, but it'll come

Cleaned up my range a LOT from early and middle position, and I try to open it up a little more in late positions, but my bad table/seat selection made it so it didn't really work as expected.

Table selection was not good, neither was seat selection, and this is what I'm working on right now. I'm starting to take notes on regs, poker copilot is also helpful there, but I'll use color in order to identify them without sitting at the table and playing a hand first (poker copilot only starts after the first played hand, but in the winamax soft, I can tag players with color coded icons)

So this is a hand I played yesterday, IP against a reg.

I've been seeing this player a lot on many tables, he seemed fairly tight and solid, not particularly aggro, more like a grinder type, he was on my left, which I later learned wasn't ideal, but the rest of the table seemed fairly "fishy" so I stuck around anyway (which I probably would at least reconsider, given the seat I was in, had I knew what I now know)

Anyway, I know if he's into a pot, he's most likely to have something solid.

I had been losing a few hands previous and he had many opportunities to see me as a clumsy beginner, which I am.

So I've been very disciplined for some time, folding pretty much anything but the top of my range PF, just observing what other players were doing.

No Limit Hold'em $0,01/$0,02
Winamax Poker
5 players
Créée avec pokercopilot.com : HUD de Poker pour Mac et Windows

Stacks:
UTG - Hero ($1,68)
CO - CO ($2,68)
BTN - BTN ($2,30)
SB - SB ($1,93)
BB - BB ($3,47)

Preflop: ($0,03, 5 players) Hero is UTG with 7 7
Hero raises to $0,06, 3 folds, BB raises to $0,18, Hero calls $0,12

So, contrary to what I just wrote, I got dealt pocket 7, which is more on the bottom of my range, and I'm in EP, but I decide to open raise on a hunch. Now the villain, in the BB, 3bets me, being OOP.

In my head, he does have something fairly strong, AK/AA/KK/QQ, as I rarely seen him show worse hands when he was aggressive like that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not getting that great of odds when calling here right? But I'm in position on him and it's a toss up on whether or not I'll be ahead on a premium-less flop. Of course, if I hit a set there, I'll probably be ahead. So I called.








So I'm not sure there's lot to extract from that hand, maybe there is (which is also why I post it here.

There's not much bet sizing here either, but I think this particular hand really showed me the importance of having position vs not having it.

if it was reversed, he would have had to think more, facing raises on a semi dry board, questionning his hand much more, whereas as it played out, I was just "another calling station" for him, which played in my favor. I think

got lucky, for the most part

get it in on the flop. you have a pot sized bet left and you have a set.

makes sense




a couple of recent hands (one that I win, the other that I lose)


No Limit Hold'em $0,01/$0,02
Winamax Poker
5 players
Créée avec pokercopilot.com : HUD de Poker pour Mac et Windows

Stacks:
UTG - UTG ($0,81)
CO - CO ($0,66)
BTN - BTN ($2,01)
SB - SB ($2,58)
BB - Hero ($1,77)

Preflop: ($0,03, 5 players) Hero is BB with T K
UTG raises to $0,04, CO raises to $0,12, 2 folds, Hero calls $0,10, UTG calls $0,08












No Limit Hold'em $0,01/$0,02
Winamax Poker
5 players
Créée avec pokercopilot.com : HUD de Poker pour Mac et Windows

Stacks:
UTG - Hero ($2,50)
CO - CO ($1,02)
BTN - BTN ($1,43)
SB - SB ($5,87)
BB - BB ($2,46)

Preflop: ($0,03, 5 players) Hero is UTG with K K
Hero raises to $0,06, 2 folds, SB calls $0,05, 1 fold










I'm more comfortable now in cash games, than I am in tournaments, I've been watching TONS of videos specifically about microstakes.

I still don't win very big pots often, and it feels like I should be more agressive PF with my strongest holdings, especially in raised pots, 3bet QQ+, AK, possibly even AQ/KQ when IP


I've also been trying medium suited connectors TJ/JQ and 1or2-gappers like 10Q, JK, KT, on occasion 9T, but without significant results so far.

I also have been taking notes and color taggin opponents, worked on seat/table selection (didn't realize how much of a difference it makes)

I usually have a rather tight image that allowed me to get away with some bluffs (against regs, mostly,some bullies and other random aggro types), and I can fairly easily steal the blinds.

I'm not uncomfortable when playing against the worst players anymore, actually, I'm pretty glad when I get to a table where I have position on 1 or 2 of those.

Solid aggro seems much stronger than fake aggro

I just need to keep learning and working, next thing I'm gonna try to integrate are 3bets pre and post flop, really try to get down the C bet thing right also.

But now I'm really bad at tournaments

1 fold pre
2 why are you just flatting the flop?