Hey everyone!

It feels like these days, the C-bet has become such a standard play, than many players often call a C-bet even if their hand didn't hit the flop. In such cases, where I also didn't hit but have a decent hand, should I C-bet my C-bet on the turn? I'm pretty sure it's not always a profitable play, but neither is raising a good hand, C-betting and always giving up if I don't hit the flop hard.

it's called a double barrel, and yes the idea has always been around

Welcome to playing poker, not just cards. You have to do whatever you feel is the best for your chip stack. Sometimes you bet, sometimes you check or fold. It can be different from hand to hand and from opponent to opponent.

Have fun and run well ... GL

The short answer is, it depends.

A whole book could be written on cbetting alone. There are some good starter articles in the micro full ring forum under the sticky with the Concepts of the Week. I'd start there. At beginner levels, I'd play exploitatively based on the villain's range & board texture and not worry about being unbalanced.

yea, it's almost as if you're asking us for permission or something. just do it and see what happens - that will be the deciding factor - not what we say

Jesus thanks for all the condescension fellas. I am aware of how poker is played, and this is called beginner questions so excuse me for asking a beginner question.
I understand what double barreling is. I was just wondering if you guys think it's okay to do. In the end it's a super risky play I think. If someone does have a hand they can let you hang yourself with a double barrel and float/reraise on the river.
Anyway, sorry for asking a question.

Thanks a lot! It's always nice to get a nice actually helpful answer among a sea of condescension and sarcasm

Starting putting opponents on a range - you can tell this by what your opponent does pre-flop - does he raise? does he limp? does he 3bet? - then decide hands that you assign to him and compare them vs your hand and the flop. From here you can decide if a c-bet and check or double barrelling is good.

I would strongly advise you to not double barrel out of position, only in position until you get more comfortable - if that sentence confuses you - you should brush up on poker positioning.

glgl

Sometimes you bet, sometimes you check or fold = It depends

If you see condescension (nice word) and sarcasm then you better put your boots on for some of the other comments you may get along the way.

Poker is constant action and reaction with incomplete information. If you find yourself in a spot where the 'standard' c-bet is being exploited by an opponent then you need to change your approach when that opponent is involved.

You need to approach c-betting from your opponents viewpoint as well. If you 'only' c-bet when you hit the Flop do you think your opponents will catch on? If you c-bet all the time, then the c-bet becomes a non-factor in your opponents decision making process as well.

Poker is about exploiting your opponents weakness without leaving too many barn doors open.

Sometimes you bet, sometimes you check or fold = It depends

"In general" questions are going to get "It depends" answers .. GL

Perhaps what threw everyone off is that instead of using the standard term that everyone is familiar with, you made up your own poker terminology for a concept that has been around almost as long as NLHE has.

Anyway like others have said, it depends. The most specific answer I can give is that you should tend to double-barrel cards that either: a) improve your hand's equity, or b) are good for your perceived range and bad for your opponent's.

So an example of a) is a card that gives you a flush draw or straight draw. An example of b) would be a flop of J64, for instance, and the turn is a Q. He has a lot of middle pairs (55, 77-TT) that hate this card.

+1

Thank you. Helpful and concise and yes I am aware of position.

Thank you that was very Helpful. I wasn't honestly trying to invent my own terminology. I was half joking but also to me, double barreling is to fire when your opponent has made something in order to make them fold. My question is, when the C-bet becomes a non-factor, due to all that you mentioned (ie I do it every time) then is it better to not do it always or to be aware that it's a non-factor and C-bet bigger or bet again on Turn. ie my opponent knows I C-bet when I hit the flop and when I don't, so they may in turn call a C-bet when they hit and when they don't, so do I Bet the turn also, and make huge pots, or do I check back and let them bet with all their value hands and all their bluff and fold sometimes?

To me that seems very exploitable. So my thinking is, if the C-bet is a non-factor why do it at all? I have been trying to reduce my C-bet freq to about 2/3 of the time, but it's too early to see if that is profitable. If my opponent has exploitable betting patterns or obvious tells, then this is definitely successful, but if they are a decent player my earlier dilemma persists.

If you find V calling a lot of cbets, the obvious adjustment is to cbet less, particular on boards that don't hit you well. I suggest reading Applications of NLHE, it had a very good discussion on the subject.

The more you do things the same way 'all the time' the easier it will be for your opponents to put you on a hand.

Why do it at all? ...
1) Get your opponent to fold even though neither of you hit the Flop
2) Get value from your hand while you still might be ahead
3) Keep your opponents guessing as to whether or not you hit the Flop

You seem to understand things quite well, but as a live player I look at 'the situation' I'm in and not really trying to mold my game to fit it into a specific stat.

Both frequency and size need to vary based on all the 'normal' poker factors ... # of opponents, position, stack size and board texture when compared to both your and your opponent's perceived ranges.

I agree that if you feel you are c-betting too much you need to look at that part of your game. But try to look at more broadly than "X" percent IMO. GL

If you are truly c-betting every time good players are going to NUKE you.

Thank you. I've been looking for new things to read. I'll check it out.

Thank you for your detailed reply, and yes you are right. I shouldn't be trying to mold my play into stats, but rather play in a way that my stats reflect strings of good/correct decisions.
However, I can't agree with the sentence I quoted nor does most of the books I read and most people I talk to, and players I watch. You also mentioned my bet sizing has to vary based on the situation, which I only half agree with.
I can definitely provide data to back up my (more or less) constant bet sizing relative to the pot. It has been a profitable part of my game.
All that said, since this post I have reduced my C-bet frequency and generally turned it from being a default re-action to one where I consider tons of factors.

Ok, doing it every time is an exaggeration but I do it about 70 percent at least, and I haven't been NUKED yet. I think I play tight enough that the hands I raise pre often with very often can hold up on the flop for a C-bet as well.

Hey!

It's been a standard play since before you were a little twinkle in your daddy's eye!

That's called "floating" and we do it because we know you there's a good chance you haven't hit the flop and we plan to take the pot away from you on a later street (sometimes I don't even look at my cards when we do this)


If you're at a table I happen to be at then yes please! (Also it's generally not called Cbetting your cbet but I quite like it!

Not if you're OOP it isn't!

Run the numbers and see

Yeah I'm sure you are BRILLIANT player, looking for people to bully in the beginner's questions thread.

ok we are getting into really vague territory here. BUT you are prolly playing looser than you think...and you are c-betting way too often.

Players that are decent (can hand read AND understand ranges AND use their chips as weapons of mass destruction) are going to own you that it a fact. How do I know this? Cuz I am that guy. Not a brag but button clickers that do not think about ranges etc and click the bet button are like ATM's when you have them figured out.

Its ok to raise pre and check give up on a flop that is nasty for you.

Not c-betting in a spot and giving up is a pretty valuable tool to have

I dunno how you are making all these assumptions like I am a button clicker that doesn't think about ranges etc. You also can't deny that a C-bet will always help you narrow down your opponent's range right? But hey if you can beat a guy who is admitting to being a beginner, good for you.

I realize I can give up on a flop I raised pre but if the reason behind your case against the C-bet is that good players can own me for it, well guess what else a good player can own me for? Raising pre and then checking post. I'm not saying what you are saying is incorrect. I'm saying anything is exploitable.

Anyway, this thread is pretty old and I've already adjusted my play to pretty good results, but thanks for your help

hey tough guy...I did not call u a button clicker. I was simply stating my personal experience as a long time professional who is trying to give you some solid input. I will no longer be responding to any of your posts. Best of luck

I'm sorry if my response offended you. It wasn't my intention to do so.

well lets all be thankful that most players aren't good