I get paid next week and am planning on buying a tracker/HUD, depositing a solid BR (2NL), getting a RB deal at a fishy site and putting in the hours playing and learning but before I do, am I wasting my time? Is the game so tough to beat that even at low stakes there is no edge?

I know I'll never be playing for millions and I will be playing because I love the game but I also want to earn at the same time. My current 'ultimate' goal would be to supplement my income by $500-$700 a month (my immediate goal being to make $100 a month).

Is 3BB/100 now unrealistic? Is it no longer the case that anyone can be a winner as long as they're willing to learn about the game, have a BR and control their tilt?


Thanks in advance.

$500-$700 is probably doable after a few years of play and learn.

It probably depends on what regs find acceptable to live off. If they need $3k+/m then they'll be out of your way because you can just play lower, if they all move to some cheap country and are happy grinding out $500/m then games will become saturated. As long as you play stakes that aren't infested by people who label themselves as pro there will always be money to be gained.

Just stay clear of those Russian/Ukrainian nitbots that destroy stakes as low as $10NL and you'll be fine. A modest supplementary income should be very doable.

You can definitely win 3BB/100 at 2NL (and above that).

I'm not sure that anyone can be a winner, but plenty can in the micros if they do the things you suggest.

Seeing as this is going to be done outside work, though, is $100/month really feasible as an immediate goal? That's 5000BB/month, which at 3BB/100 will require 166,667 hands/month. That's a lot. How do you envisage making $500-$700? At what stakes?

Playing poker with a fixed financial goal in mind might not be a good starting point. Play because you enjoy it, and play with the goal of improving your winrate and moving up when you can.

By the way I'm assuming you're not going to make 200k hands/month, which would quickly make it not fun also.

If you play 30k hands/month at 500h/h you play a little over 13 hours/week which is doable. To make $600/m you need to win at 4bb/100 at $50NL which at regular tables at fishy sites is certainly within reason. Play 6 tables maximum and actively take notes including in hands you're not even in and focus on quality over volume.

Thanks for the advice guys. I didn't anticipate making $500 at 2NL, I assumed I'd have moved up a few levels first. I agree the number one thing is to start having a winrate, I just wanted some monetary goal to aim for if you know what I mean. Thanks for the reality check re: $100/month at 2NL!

Not seen any Russian/Ukrainian nits on Stars - they're all maniacs!

I know it's a long shot but as it's ridiculous for me to splash $50/hour on a coach, is anyone winning at the micros willing to help me out (sweat me/talk me through as they play/discuss strategy & review etc)? I understand if the answer's no but if you don't ask you don't get

Yeah, you're not going to spend $50/hour on a coach. Rather than expecting free coaching at a point where (as we learned in the other thread) you don't yet understand core concepts such as equity, follow the advice I gave you there and spend a small amount of money on a book. If you don't want Crushing the Microstakes then Verneer's Building a Bankroll is also good.*

Oh, I wasn't expecting anything, just asked as I learn quicker interactng with someone and of course, talking is faster than reading. Thanks for the books.

At least that's a decent attitude to have. But the thing is this -- for the most part, people who are actually good aren't going to want to spend hours teaching you things which benefit them very little.

I second the book recs by thunderbolts. Also, as an aside, if you look around you can find good micros coaches for ~$30/hr, or you could consider trying to get a staking + coaching deal. These are both things I'd look into after getting a solid grip on the basics, though.

I understand what you mean about not wanting to help for no gain, it's just that in the past I saw people willing to help out so I figured I'd give it a go

I just checked out the books - $20 is a bit pricey for a pdf. At the risk of sounding stupid, I have found two sources for Blackrain - a 2009 edition and a 2014 edition (parts 1 & 2). I would assume I should go for the 2014 version but does the previous warning about his latter books receiving mixed opinions include this revision?

Also. would you recommend Dueces Cracked or Cardrunners instead of these books as I can get a ree trial with DC and all of CR by signing up to pokerrooms.

I can't even remember how terrible I (and everyone) was in 2009. Definitely go for the latest version if you're interested.

Also the best way to study is to the actual work yourself and post the occasional hand for when you're really lost. Videos telling you to do x but fail to give you a full insight of why have their limits.

Studying yourself means setting up a sheet with all the equations so every time you need one you can just fill it in. Have tables of hands you will play in certain spots that you've actually studied and tried out, no need of doing the work twice. Run equilab and play around with ranges a bit so you get comfortable with the software, then use it to work out equities to fill in the equations with.

The single most important equation in poker is

EV = S($won * %win) - S($lost * %loss)

It simply means that your expected value is the sum of wins multiplied the frequency minus losses times frequencies. For example you toss a coin for $10 but someone gives you $20 when you win. You win 50% of the time. Your EV will be $20 * 0,5 - $10 * 0,5 = $5. Note that this equation can be tailor to do just about anything including calculating pot odds, fold equity, implied odds etc.

Don't be a jerk about this: pay the guy for his work.

It's not "a pdf" in the sense that you seem to think. It's a full length book. It's also good, which is why you'll see it recommended frequently. You're paying for the content, not the paper it's written on.

Also, pdfs are one of the most common infection vectors for malware these days. It strikes me that counterfeit copies of books that poker players will read would be a great avenue for someone wanting to compromise poker accounts. Another reason why this is a dumb move.

Buy the genuine article from the guy's website. If you've got the money to deposit a solid bankroll, as you say, then you certainly have the money to pay for a book that is being recommended to you because it might earn you back many many times its cover price.

As for the video sites, that's also a good idea. I don't recommend either in particular (someone else will have a better idea than I do about them).

opened this having read the thread title thinking this might have been a discussion as to other, not mind-numbingly dull forms of poker, oh well

I always intended to buy the real article - or get it free with a video site (so he still gets paid).
You've just jumped to conclusions.

Yeah, I'm not sure I believe you. There's only one place you can buy the book, afaik, and that's direct from him at his website. And it doesn't come in two parts, etc, etc.

Still, good to hear that you're planning to do the right thing. Hell, he even has some sort of 30-day money back guarantee, so you effectively get a free trial.

Not affiliated in any way, btw. Conscious I probably sound like some kind of shill here.

lol, me as well

[QUOTE=thunderbolts;47824788]Yeah, I'm not sure I believe you. [quote]
That made me LOL I appreciate your honesty. Too many people are PC these days.


I googled and found his website charging $20, saw some reviews sites and on the next page of Google I found a dragthebar link to a 2014 revision.


Even better! Chocks away as of pay day!


As long as it's still highly valid to today's microstakes then all is good. Is there any discernible difference betwen his book and Verneer's? Do they say the same things or have vastly different outlooks And is any better than the other?

And that is my next question - what other variations of poker are a) are as user-friendly as NLHE (by that I mean fun to play and not too complicated to pick up) and b) soft and ripe for exploiting as NLHE was 10 years ago.