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Beating NL10 5-Max. Getting destroyed on NL10 6-Max. Wtf? Beating NL10 5-Max. Getting destroyed on NL10 6-Max. Wtf?

04-07-2011 , 03:33 AM
I was just playing Rush during 2010, mostly 10 tabling tables (2x NL25 FR, 4x NL10 SH, 4x NL5 SH).
I was playing nitty style overall, 15/13 mostly and doing very good averaging 130K hands/month but never really improved to beat higher than NL25.

Then I finally decided to learn "normal" poker and I started to play it in November 2010.
I began with 10-12 tabling 5-Max tables but dropped down to 7-9 in average over last 10K hands.








I wasn't that happy so I started to read Fee's Guide and to watch CR's & DC's videos. By the end of January 2011 I was pissed with very bad valueback at my site so I switched to another network with 6-Max tables.
Reading and re-reading Fee's, watching videos and writing down notes on paper plus reviewing yesterday's session/s every morning before starting new one gotta show some result?
I lowered the number of tables down to 4-6, mostly 5 in average.
Another thing to mention is that I was mostly starting 5th table to practice HU for a while before third player sit down.

So here we go...











Beating NL10 5-Max. Getting destroyed on NL10 6-Max. Wtf? Quote
04-07-2011 , 03:41 AM
So what to do? I feel kinda lost now. Started to read The Poker Blueprint and totally gave up from watching videos because I see no point in them.
Please, don't advice me: "10 table 5-Max bro!"
I won't say it's all due to variance or it's rigged etc. I just suck obviously.
Beating NL10 5-Max. Getting destroyed on NL10 6-Max. Wtf? Quote
04-07-2011 , 04:28 AM
I'll be quick - take it with a grain of salt since I just basically glanced at your stats.

- You c-bet too little - You should be C-betting around 70-80% of the time (Esp.OTB)
- You're too passive, you're getting rolled over by aggression and folding hands that you shouldn't - Especially On the button.
-You're playing too much from the SB (It's the worst position and You'll be OOP everytime, you should have an extremely tight range in the SB, (3betting light here or folding are your main goals playing from the SB)
- You're W$WSF is way tooo low, should be at LEAST 40 (45-50 is a good number here)

Oh and stick to a single format, SH OR FH - Choose only one, Different game style and dynamics (winning players excluded)
Play less tables - 10 tables of RUSH? That is way too many, Stick to 2 - at most 4. (I play 3)
You should be TIGHTENING UP in rush and LOOSENING up in normal ring games (Especially at the lower limits)
Play as many hands against fish, tread carefully against good regs.
Beating NL10 5-Max. Getting destroyed on NL10 6-Max. Wtf? Quote
04-07-2011 , 04:52 AM
Maybe the game selection has a role in it? You said you changed sites.

Maybe you were playing 5max at a very fishy site and winning, then moved to another site where some players were better on average?
Beating NL10 5-Max. Getting destroyed on NL10 6-Max. Wtf? Quote
04-08-2011 , 09:35 PM
Thank you guys.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mstr
I'll be quick - take it with a grain of salt since I just basically glanced at your stats.

- You c-bet too little - You should be C-betting around 70-80% of the time (Esp.OTB)
- You're too passive, you're getting rolled over by aggression and folding hands that you shouldn't - Especially On the button.
-You're playing too much from the SB (It's the worst position and You'll be OOP everytime, you should have an extremely tight range in the SB, (3betting light here or folding are your main goals playing from the SB)
- You're W$WSF is way tooo low, should be at LEAST 40 (45-50 is a good number here)

Oh and stick to a single format, SH OR FH - Choose only one, Different game style and dynamics (winning players excluded)
Play less tables - 10 tables of RUSH? That is way too many, Stick to 2 - at most 4. (I play 3)
You should be TIGHTENING UP in rush and LOOSENING up in normal ring games (Especially at the lower limits)
Play as many hands against fish, tread carefully against good regs.
A lot of good points here, thanks for that. Now I'll say a couple of things but nhf, I'm not saying you're not right or that I don't respect your thoughts.
Regarding the second part of your message, yeah, I'm just 4-6 tabling 6-max now, no Rush anymore, no FR or so
I find it hard to CBet more than 55-60% because villains aren't so fold happy and I'm not comfortable to fire 3 barrels with air. I know that's probably one hefty leak and I'd gladly fix it. When I was watching videos coaches fire CBets and they say like "This flop hardly hits his range very bad, he can't continue", he bets and villain folds. I know bad boards to not CBet or to go with delayed CBet. But I also find zero to none fold equity in games when I'm table selecting (Looking for high players/flop % and average pot of 18bb or bigger before I sit down on the table). When I'm playing vs 15/12 - 23/20 regs (and Merge's NL10 is full of them) that's a bird of a different colour but I'm not getting much money anyway from these tables.

My button is 29/23 with 35% steal and BTN's red line is skyrocketing. You really think it's that bad there? I agree that it's bad when you look other positions but I'm also not sure about SB. Isn't it right to raise practically any two when everyone folds to us if BB isn't defending his blind like mad man or if he's not complete station?
W$WSF is low, yeah. But it was even lower, like 34 so I grined it up to 39. I know what's about with that stat but I've no idea how to bump it up somewhere above 40 or 45.
Mostly when I get called if I CBet flop I get called on next two streets.
Here's most standard example and I'm facing really big number of min-raising when I fire 3 bullets. I don't see I can do anything on the river but b/f. Villain is 34/4 (51) with river AF inf., fold BB to steal 50 (2/4) and fold to FCB 50. Sure I am OOP so that's one weight more but it's just random hand taken out for example after filtering PT3 for "CBet flop, CBet turn, saw river"...

Merge - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

MP: $12.74
CO: $11.05
BTN: $10.38
Hero (SB): $10.32
BB: $12.46
UTG: $11.31

Hero posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has 7 6

fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.30, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.60, 2 players) 8 5 9
Hero bets $0.60, BB calls $0.60

Turn: ($1.80, 2 players) 3
Hero bets $1.20, BB calls $1.20

River: ($4.20, 2 players) T
Hero bets $2.22, BB raises to $4.44





Quote:
Originally Posted by Vuggie
Maybe the game selection has a role in it? You said you changed sites.

Maybe you were playing 5max at a very fishy site and winning, then moved to another site where some players were better on average?
I was playing a bit of 6-max at iPoker then switched to Ongame because iPoker was too bad with "1 cent glitch" and total nits around. Don't know if it's Ongame that much fishy than Merge is tbh
Merge's player pool is smaller, after 55K hands there I got notes on almost everyone. When I pull up my PokerTracker to see Summary for players, I see that average Merge player is 26/18 while average Ongame villain is 30/11 so that's some part of my fail I'd say so.

I don't want to whine no money in poker, everyone is solid, but I seriously doubt that almost every single NL10 player on Merge is making more effort than me in terms of learning the game so that's the reason I can't beat almost no one
Speaking of coaching videos... Call me dumb or crazy but no way that 99% of them are anything but unedited because almost every single has been played in perfect conditions where valuebets with TPBK are working flawlessly, where second or third pair is totally enough to call down 3 streets because "fish can't have anything better there".

FWIW, the only really good video I was watching and enjoying was http://www.deucescracked.com/videos/...nUL_Loose_Play
It's probably my favourite video with real situations there and great reasoning behind every move. In other vids coaches are mostly rambling how easy is to crush uNL, everyone is lolbad and ABC is the way to go. Vbet, vbet, vbet and fold when they raise... The problem is what they've been (min)raising a lot lately and I saw that only in three vids so far, latest was by QTip from DragTheBar when he was playing NL10 (Merge).
I'll just stick to books/2+2 now as I see more value there.

I posted here because there was no feedback on my stats in uNL thread some time ago, not even after one or two bumps.
Basically, I want to improve and I've no clue how to do that so I'm asking here.

Thanks for reading this wall of text

Last edited by cpzshft; 04-08-2011 at 09:52 PM. Reason: Motherofgod picture for length of this post. tl; dr sorry.
Beating NL10 5-Max. Getting destroyed on NL10 6-Max. Wtf? Quote
04-09-2011 , 05:24 PM
go back to ongame, weaker players for sure + its much easier to get the NUT seat in juicy games
Beating NL10 5-Max. Getting destroyed on NL10 6-Max. Wtf? Quote

      
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