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All-in situations at NL4 All-in situations at NL4

09-08-2011 , 06:29 AM
I've looked at some other threads with possible all-in situations and their profitability/"correctness", but I had some situations which I'm not so sure on, and I was hoping that I could get some insight on them. I'd appreciate it quite a bit. The equity of some of these situations might be common knowledge, but I'm not the best of players right now, and I'll admit my ignorance if it means I fix a big hole in my game. Here are the hands:

    Party, $0.02/$0.04 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    BB: $4 (100 bb)
    CO: $2.54 (63.5 bb)
    MP: $4.02 (100.5 bb)
    UTG: $5.86 (146.5 bb)
    BTN: $1.89 (47.3 bb)
    Hero (SB): $6.01 (150.3 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with K J
    UTG raises to $0.12, MP folds, CO calls $0.12, BTN folds, Hero raises to $0.24, BB folds, UTG calls $0.12, CO raises to $0.60, Hero calls $0.36, UTG calls $0.36

    Flop: ($1.84) 8 T K (3 players)
    Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets $1.94 and is all-in, Hero calls $1.94, UTG calls $1.94

    Turn: ($7.66) J (3 players, 1 is all-in)
    Hero bets $3.47 and is all-in, UTG calls $3.32

    River: ($14.30) 9 (3 players, 2 are all-in)

    Spoiler:
    Results: $14.30 pot ($0.71 rake)
    Final Board: 8 T K J 9
    CO mucked A A and lost (-$2.54 net)
    UTG showed Q J and won $13.59 ($7.73 net)
    Hero showed K J and lost (-$5.86 net)


    Now obviously here I got sucked out on the river, but I'm not sure if the shove itself was +EV. Was it correct? Should I have have just folded? I didn't have many reads on the opponents. A flop/pre-flop fold may have been better.

      Party, $0.02/$0.04 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #10522302

      BB: $4.73 (118.3 bb)
      UTG: $4.97 (124.2 bb)
      CO: $2.56 (64 bb)
      MP: $3.72 (93 bb)
      BTN: $1.73 (43.3 bb)
      Hero (SB): $4 (100 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with Q T
      4 folds, Hero raises to $0.12, BB calls $0.08

      Flop: ($0.24) 4 4 6 (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.17, BB calls $0.17

      Turn: ($0.58) 5 (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.28, BB calls $0.28

      River: ($1.14) K (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.60, BB raises to $2.40, Hero raises to $3.43 and is all-in, BB calls $1.03

      Spoiler:
      Results: $8 pot ($0.40 rake)
      Final Board: 4 4 6 5 K
      BB showed 4 4 and won $7.60 ($3.60 net)
      Hero mucked Q T and lost (-$4 net)



      Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.


      This one was a bit of a nightmare for me. I aggressively played a straight/flush draw, and got called down. My interpretation of the player was that he was quite tight, didn't fold to c-bets often because of his limited range. I put him on something like AK, AA, JJ, QQ, TT. As it turned out, he had flopped quads. As it is, with a pair on the board, was it profitable to go all-in? The only real anti-flush situations are higher flushes (which I did not, at all, put him on) and a pair on the board for a full house. Did I play the hand correctly, or would a check-call/fold have been better in that situation?

        Party, $0.02/$0.04 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 4 Players
        Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #10522322

        BB: $3.97 (99.3 bb)
        BTN: $8.54 (213.5 bb)
        CO: $4 (100 bb)
        Hero (SB): $6.06 (151.5 bb)

        Preflop: Hero is SB with Q K
        CO folds, BTN raises to $0.12, Hero calls $0.10, BB folds

        Flop: ($0.28) Q 8 K (2 players)
        Hero bets $0.16, BTN raises to $2, Hero raises to $5.94, BTN calls $3.94

        Turn: ($12.16) J (2 players)
        River: ($12.16) 6 (2 players)

        Spoiler:
        Results: $12.16 pot ($0.60 rake)
        Final Board: Q 8 K J 6
        BTN showed 8 8 and won $11.56 ($5.50 net)
        Hero mucked Q K and lost (-$6.06 net)



        Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.


        This is probably the worst one on my part, and the one that I have the most trouble dealing with. Shoving with two-pair tends to lose me a lot of money. I'm not sure if it's a good enough hand to shove, but that said, I do get it in with AK on A boards quite a bit. The pot was so massive and there were a couple of draws out there, so I felt like it was the best move at the time. I legitimately felt like I had the best hand and the only hand that could beat me was 88. The player was a bit nity, so if they had a hand, it was probably a high K.
        All-in situations at NL4 Quote
        09-08-2011 , 06:39 AM
        I will give you one bit of advice which mad me a much better player and I stick to this rule.

        When facing a raise, 3bet or fold unless you have a pair and you are going set mining, in which case its okay to call with 22-TT.

        If I have KQ, AQ, I will never just call a raise with these hands.
        All-in situations at NL4 Quote
        09-08-2011 , 07:46 AM
        Hand 1 was butchered pretty bad. You are oop with a marginal hand facing an utg raise and a call. You simply can't raise for value with this hand, and a small raise such as you made isn't enough to get folds. Call for value here is great. Fold is nitty but not terrible. Raise is very risky and can only be profitable if you are very good at hand reading and are confident that your opponents ranges don't have you crushed too much of the time.

        So you raise but the guy who had flatted the utg raise decides to 4bet your 3bet. This is HUGELY important. It can be 1 of 2 things. 1) he has a huge hand and was trapping. 2) he is literally has no clue how to play and thinks now is a good time to bluff. It's much more likely #1.

        Facing this your choices are fold > call >>>>> raise imo. More likely to call if 4bet villain has deep stack, but what with his range dominating our hand fold seems sensible.

        Then you flop top pair and stack off.

        Note: i am not trying to berate you here i have done many stupid things like this myself. Just gotta try to learn from it
        All-in situations at NL4 Quote
        09-08-2011 , 08:02 AM
        AndyM: That's something I actually need to work on, I'm very aggressive (I'm ridiculously loose and aggressive, another thing to work on) but I'm not aggressive enough with 3-bets and check-raises. I'll try to implement more of it into my game.

        jimjam: I was deep-stacked, and probably not willing to get it all in on the flop with KJ, but the CO was a bit short stacked at that point, so I figured a call was fine. I had seen him make crazy plays before, and although I suspected he had AA/KK, I felt like I was ahead of enough of his range to be +EV. I ended up shipping it in on the turn when I got my second pair, though. CO was indeed trapping. I have no idea what UTG was doing calling all-in for 150 BB on the turn with a straight draw. And not at all, I don't feel like you're berating me, I appreciate your advice very much and I find it very helpful. Thank you.
        All-in situations at NL4 Quote
        09-08-2011 , 08:19 AM
        hand 1 you're focusing on the wrong part. Why are you fixated on the all-in part?

        In hand one you bet $3.47 into $7.66 with 2 pair - standard. The mistakes were made prior to that. On that street your play is fine.

        Is it a coincidence all3 examples you are in SB?
        All-in situations at NL4 Quote
        09-08-2011 , 09:16 AM
        As mentioned previously in this thread, your preflop play is highly problematic.

        Hand 1: Fold PF (minraise is burning money)
        Hand 2: Cooler
        Hand 3: 3bet or fold preflop, villain dependent. (And why are you donking flop when he's going to cbet 100% of the time?)
        All-in situations at NL4 Quote
        09-08-2011 , 09:33 AM
        BeerMonster: I noticed that too late. That's the kind of mistake I seem to make repeatedly, and rather than cut it out of my play completely, I just make it with less frequency each time. Very costly. Not something I do often, but with certain things, I find it difficult to just eliminate them. Didn't actually notice that. Complete coincidence.

        Cry Me A River: The 3bet would probably have been a much better play, I agree. I donked into him because he had a low c-bet percentage (<15%) and I have a high c-bet percentage.
        All-in situations at NL4 Quote
        09-08-2011 , 09:53 AM
        Hand 1: Calling a 4-bet pre with KJ is suicide.
        All-in situations at NL4 Quote
        09-08-2011 , 10:34 AM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by youMaDson
        BeerMonster: I noticed that too late. That's the kind of mistake I seem to make repeatedly, and rather than cut it out of my play completely, I just make it with less frequency each time. Very costly. Not something I do often, but with certain things, I find it difficult to just eliminate them. Didn't actually notice that. Complete coincidence.

        Cry Me A River: The 3bet would probably have been a much better play, I agree. I donked into him because he had a low c-bet percentage (<15%) and I have a high c-bet percentage.
        With the SB thing, just an observation. Perhaps playing too much out of the blinds. I was actually thinking that you may have been running a filter on HEM and analysing your game from that position. It would be a good thing as it's the type of thing HEM is great for and seemingly not utilised properly by a lot of people who have it.
        All-in situations at NL4 Quote
        09-08-2011 , 11:06 AM
        Preflop in hand #1 is very very bad
        All-in situations at NL4 Quote
        09-08-2011 , 12:08 PM
        It seems you're getting into trouble because of your pre-flop decisions, as others have noted.
        If you're unsure of your equity in a hand, you'll learn from experience, but you should immediately get hold of Pokerstove or Equilab. (Search google). These tools allow you to input hands and hand ranges and calculate your winning chance (equity) on particular streets. You'll soon be able to judge how strong two pair on the turn is against an open-ended straight draw, for example.
        All-in situations at NL4 Quote
        09-08-2011 , 02:51 PM
        1. You 2x 3-bet with KJs and then call a 4-bet? biggest butcher job of all time. Don't 3b, fold if you want, but fold to 4-bet for sure...and don't size your 3-bet like that ever...

        2. Kind of a cooler, but be careful about drawing for flushes when board is paired or drawing for straights on monotone or flush draw-y boards. In this case you obviously aren't gonna assume your opponent flopped quads but you can seriously consider folding the river. He probably 3-bets most of what you perceive his range to be because it looks like you can be on a steal so if anything he is 3-betting wide in that spot. b/f river.

        3. OOP with KQo without initiative is a recipe for disaster. tend not to do this. that being said, you flopped big and it's kind of tough to get away from. will depend on your perception of villain whether you decide to fold or lot, I feel like he can have a lot there that you're beating...but tbh his raise sizing on the flop looks like he wants to get it in and severely de-price draws so that should give you a read if you perceive villain as competent
        All-in situations at NL4 Quote

              
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