all-in rules question - Beginning Poker Questions

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all-in rules question

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07-21-2008 , 04:54 PM

steve t

stranger

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2

Playing in a home NL tourney recently a debate (OK, argument) came up about how to play out a hand. Here's the scenario; Three players in to see the flop; the BB (with 2000 chips) plus the seat 1 under the gun (with 400 chips) and the button (with 1000 chips). The BB bets 300. Seat 1 goes all-in for 400. The button wants to raise, can he? Since seat one didn't make a complete raise I thought the button had three options; fold, call 400, or raise all-in.

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07-21-2008 , 04:57 PM

dualaces123

adept

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 726

Button hasn't acted yet and can call 400 or raise any amount that is greater than 300-bb.

Suppose he just called 400. then our initial better would only be able to call or fold, and not re-raise.

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07-21-2008 , 05:02 PM

Shick

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2,314

I'm pretty sure the all-in has to be at least half of a legal raise to open the pot to further raising. In your example, the button would be allowed to raise, but the bet to him is still 300. However, if the button folds, the BB would not be allowed to re-raise since the all in wasn't half of the origional 300 bet.

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07-21-2008 , 05:26 PM

steve t

stranger

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2

Got it, the BB can't raise if the button just calls. Thanks, I had it wrong...

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07-21-2008 , 06:01 PM

Rek

HUZA 2008

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 10,033

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shick

However, if the button folds, the BB would not be allowed to re-raise since the all in wasn't half of the origional 300 bet.

Am I missing something here? If the button folds who could the BB re-raise anyway? The other guy is already all-in.

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07-21-2008 , 06:06 PM

Shick

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2,314

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rek

Am I missing something here? If the button folds who could the BB re-raise anyway? The other guy is already all-in.

In this example yeah, there's only two players in the pot and one is all in. However, if someone else had called the BB inbetween (say shorty was in mid position and UGT called the 300, then shorty pushed) BB would not be allowed to re-raise.

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07-21-2008 , 06:09 PM

Rek

HUZA 2008

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 10,033

Ok Shick I see what your saying, sorry. Yeah that's right. dualaces pretty much summed it up nicely in a couple of sentences.

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07-22-2008 , 11:03 AM

Guy Whiz

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 652

Dualaces got it right. The rule is simple and the reason is you cannot raise yourself. The Button has not acted so he can do what he wants. The BB (with $2000 in chips) can bet $300 and then if the UTG makes it $400 and the button calls $400, BB can not raise (that is raising himself). He can bet $200 then UTG raises to $400 all in, Button calls, now BB can go all in.
It is a sophisticated play to bet that amount where the UTG will go all in and reopen the bettingcreating the dead money of the button.

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