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04-12-2012 , 12:42 PM
Villain is 18/12/3/390 hands (<-- Do I need to write 'hands there?)

Merge - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (UTG): $5.29
CO: $6.57
BTN: $2.22
SB: $3.06
BB: $5.30

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04

Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has A K

Hero raises to $0.14, CO raises to $0.38, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.24

Flop: ($0.82, 2 players) J 2 K
Hero checks, CO bets $0.48, Hero raises to $1.81, CO raises to $3.14, Hero raises to $4.47, CO raises to $5.97, Hero calls $0.44 and is all-in

Turn: ($10.64, 2 players) 6

River: ($10.64, 2 players) 2


Don't I basically have to play it this way, or do I need to be basing it on stats more?

thnks
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04-12-2012 , 12:45 PM
Villians a nit - whats his 3B stats?
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04-12-2012 , 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GutshotDan92
Villians a nit - whats his 3B stats?
4.5
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04-12-2012 , 01:32 PM
More flop raising. First hand w/ villain

Merge - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG: $4.00
MP: $7.20
Hero (CO): $7.20
BTN: $4.36
SB: $2.34
BB: $4.00

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04

Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has J A

fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.14, fold, fold, BB calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.30, 2 players) J T 9
BB checks, Hero bets $0.30, BB raises to $0.90, Hero raises to $1.50, BB raises to $3.86 and is all-in, Hero calls $2.36

Turn: ($8.02, 2 players) 5

River: ($8.02, 2 players) 9
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04-12-2012 , 01:33 PM
To the first hand:

Flat the flop, fold to flop 3bet?

If we Stove a 4.5% range, we get AA-99, AJs+, AKo.

He's not playing 99, TT, QQ, AJ or AQ this way, and it's very unlikely he'd 3bet the flop with a one pair hand. He probably has JJ as you have a blocker to the KK.

Last edited by TheDefiniteArticle; 04-12-2012 at 01:34 PM. Reason: Second hand posted
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04-12-2012 , 02:12 PM
jesus christ stop automatically mashing the pot/minbet buttons
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04-12-2012 , 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixfour
jesus christ stop automatically mashing the pot/minbet buttons
If it's 1/8 stack pot or less I usually pot bet. I used to type it in but pot bet is just faster. I start underbetting more when it's bigger, but sometimes I'm just pot betting every street against a calling station. How do you think I should be doing it?

What's wrong with minbetting?
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04-12-2012 , 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDefiniteArticle
To the first hand:

Flat the flop, fold to flop 3bet?

If we Stove a 4.5% range, we get AA-99, AJs+, AKo.

I'll stick 3bet in my HUD. Know a "ranges" link? I know I have problems putting villains on ranges and it's important as heck.
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04-12-2012 , 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6maxLAG42
If it's 1/8 stack pot or less I usually pot bet. I used to type it in but pot bet is just faster. I start underbetting more when it's bigger, but sometimes I'm just pot betting every street against a calling station. How do you think I should be doing it?

What's wrong with minbetting?
You should be betting either for value or as a bluff in this situation. If you think you have the best hand right now, a minbet nets you less $ and gives villain better odds to call with draws. If you are trying to bluff him off that hand, do you really think he will fold to a minbet? Basically your minbet doesn't accomplish much of anything.

For ranges, google pokerstove and play around with it.
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04-12-2012 , 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by detdet
You should be betting either for value or as a bluff in this situation. If you think you have the best hand right now, a minbet nets you less $ and gives villain better odds to call with draws. If you are trying to bluff him off that hand, do you really think he will fold to a minbet? Basically your minbet doesn't accomplish much of anything.

For ranges, google pokerstove and play around with it.
Wait... where did I minbet? Usually I'm only minbetting when the villain has .01 left; or maybe if I flop a SF and it's checked to me on the button, just to send the action back around.
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04-12-2012 , 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by detdet
You should be betting either for value or as a bluff in this situation. If you think you have the best hand right now, a minbet nets you less $ and gives villain better odds to call with draws. If you are trying to bluff him off that hand, do you really think he will fold to a minbet? Basically your minbet doesn't accomplish much of anything.
That's a really good explanation for why minbets and minraises are counter-productive. I might have to steal that block of text and cut/paste it instead of just saying "Don't minraise" in future.
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04-12-2012 , 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokes
That's a really good explanation for why minbets and minraises are counter-productive. I might have to steal that block of text and cut/paste it instead of just saying "Don't minraise" in future.
When you say minraise you mean raising 1BB on top of a 1BB bet right? not RR the minimum amount?
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04-12-2012 , 03:33 PM
In both hands, I really hate the raise on the flops. With TPTK, it's absolutely standard to flat call a raise. If you re-raise, you're generally only getting called by something that beats you. Keep the pot reasonably small and see what villain does on the turn. It's nearly always a mistake to stack off 100bb+ with one pair.
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04-12-2012 , 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6maxLAG42
When you say minraise you mean raising 1BB on top of a 1BB bet right? not RR the minimum amount?
Not necessarily. In the first hand, villain raised to 3.14, which was a raise of 1.33 over your 1.81. You then raised another 1.33 to 4.47. The $1.33 was a minraise. You're not allowed to raise $1 or 50c, unless that was all you had left. Since making that minraise only left you with 44c, you should have just shoved, although as I've said above you should almost never be getting your whole stack in on the flop with one pair.

FWIW, minraises are sometimes OK in tournament situations. Even in live tourneys, they'll sometimes describe the move as "clicking it back" as a minraise online can be accomplished by just hitting the RAISE button. In cash games, however, a standard raise would be at least 3X whatever villain put in. You should be using the bet slider to set up the correct size. Indeed, you should be conscious of stack sizes and trying to set up a shove that won't be an overbet.
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04-12-2012 , 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokes
In both hands, I really hate the raise on the flops. With TPTK, it's absolutely standard to flat call a raise. If you re-raise, you're generally only getting called by something that beats you. Keep the pot reasonably small and see what villain does on the turn. It's nearly always a mistake to stack off 100bb+ with one pair.
Cool. Thought I was reading that I need to be getting all in with TPTK at these limits, this gives me more to think about.

And I'll stick to the 3x thing.

Last edited by 6maxLAG42; 04-12-2012 at 03:51 PM.
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04-12-2012 , 03:48 PM
the minraise bluff at the flop then ship any blank turn is also very good with bluffs vs THINKING opponents

obv only in 3bet pots and obv only against "normal" players, not lags, and not nits
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04-12-2012 , 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbuster
the minraise bluff at the flop then ship any blank turn is also very good with bluffs vs THINKING opponents

obv only in 3bet pots and obv only against "normal" players, not lags, and not nits
I actually have pulled off a few minbet flop bluffs first in at these limits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6maxLAG42
Usually I'm only minbetting when the villain has .01 left; or maybe if I flop a SF and it's checked to me on the button, just to send the action back around.
I think these might be correct situations too. Let's start a minbet thread

Shouldn't I be bluffing nits?
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04-12-2012 , 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6maxLAG42
Cool. Thought I was reading that I need to be getting all in with TPTK at these limits, this gives me more to think about.
If you flop the immortal nuts, it's sometimes fine to slowplay, but if you think villains will call a bet, then you should always bet as much as you think they will call. Minbets are stupid. Standard advice is "Don't slowplay in the micros". To a certain extent, you shouldn't even slowplay at high stakes.

In the Zoom thread, someone did actually flop a royal flush, and I was amazed that they made a standard c-bet. Even more amazing was that villain called on every street with a very weak hand, losing their whole stack. When I flopped quad aces and slowplayed, I won 13 cents. :/

There's a good story in (I think) Sklansky's 'Theory of Poker' where he says his friend flopped a straight flush and decided to slowplay and it just got checked to the river, when villain finally made a small bet. Turned out villain had flopped the nut flush and was also slowplaying! Instead of there being a massive pot, there was a tiny one.

Another example happened in the WSOP 2009 main event. Joe Hachem flopped a boat with 99 on AA9 and really should have gone broke on day 1, because his opponent flopped quad aces. But they both slowplayed and Hachem lost just 4000 chips, and survived for several more days.
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04-12-2012 , 04:12 PM
I've open-limp slowplayed AA. River A, so call a RR. Villain hit a rag flush on turn. Wow. There's only so many chances to bet.
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