Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
AJ, AJ,

04-05-2008 , 05:16 PM
I just got started playing - but not entirely serious on this game yet. I'd like some input on my play on this hand though, on what I should do here. I'd like any and all comments as I wanna learn all I can.

I'll post outcome after.

EDIT: OOPS. forgot to finish the thread title. my bad.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($6)
BB ($17.40)
UTG ($14.25)
UTG+1 ($14.40)
MP1 ($25)
Hero ($29.50)
CO ($5.65)
Button ($23.50)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A, J.
UTG raises to $1, 2 folds, Hero calls $1, 4 folds.

Flop: ($2.35) 3, J, 9 (2 players)
UTG bets $2, Hero raises to $4, UTG raises to $6, Hero calls $2.

Turn: ($14.35) 6 (2 players)
UTG bets $7.25 (All-In), Hero ???

Last edited by redinfinity; 04-05-2008 at 05:17 PM. Reason: oops.
AJ, Quote
04-05-2008 , 05:23 PM
when utg reraises you, looks like an overpair. i dont mind raise, because if he is just cbetting you can probably take it away. After he 3bets you, i think you need to drop this hand. Whats his range here. I think the worst hand in his range is AJ
AJ, Quote
04-05-2008 , 05:31 PM
read about the ama theorem, which states that a flop or especially turn minraise is generally very close to the nuts. somebody actually did research and over a large sample of hands, this theory holds up remarkably well.

your minraise looks pretty weak, by the way. $6 or $8 would have been better. hard not to get to the felt that way, of course. That's what 60bb stacks do to you.
AJ, Quote
04-05-2008 , 05:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gedanken
read about the ama theorem, which states that a flop or especially turn minraise is generally very close to the nuts. somebody actually did research and over a large sample of hands, this theory holds up remarkably well.

your minraise looks pretty weak, by the way. $6 or $8 would have been better. hard not to get to the felt that way, of course. That's what 60bb stacks do to you.
i just mentioned the same idea sorta in another thread. i agree that most of the time a minraise = really big hand. def something to keep in mind.

although i love the min raise bluff against good players on the right flop. Be careful with this one tho.
AJ, Quote
04-05-2008 , 07:27 PM
I personally don't like calling UTG raises with this many players when I only have AJ, suited or not. Normally someone who raises UTG has a better hand than AJ. He could easily have AA, KK, QQ, or JJ...all of which beat you. If you're going to play AJ like this after UTG raises, I would prefer to simply re-raise him before the flop. Likely it will fold around back to him. If he re-raises you again, you can be pretty sure he has a hand better than AJ and fold. As played, you put yourself in a dangerous position, especially when you flop TPTK, as your hand now looks much better than it might be, and if you're not careful you could lose your entire stack to one of the hands mentioned above. I don't mind the raise after his cbet, although you could have raised a bit more so you have a better idea of where you stand. He's representing a BIG hand here, one that beats AJ, believe him and fold.

You could also read HOH Volume 1, the section regarding the Gap concept (believe someone else actually coined the phrase but forgot who). Basically says if you're going to call a raise from someone in EP, you need to have a hell of a hand (not exact words but same idea). AJ doesn't fit this criteria.
AJ, Quote
04-05-2008 , 08:04 PM
Thanks for the input guys.

Result:
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Schloesy: shows [Ac 8c] (high card Ace)
redinfinity: shows [As Js] (a pair of Jacks)
redinfinity collected $27.45 from pot

I understand now how he can easily have had a better hand though. Thanks.
AJ, Quote
04-05-2008 , 08:29 PM
i also wanna echo that i dont particulary like calling an utg raise especially in mp. if someone comes along behind you, then you are really in a tough spot.

however, sweet that he had nothing, and the most important thing here is to take a note that he played like this. notes on stuff like this will be super +ev
AJ, Quote
04-05-2008 , 08:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redinfinity
Thanks for the input guys.

Result:
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Schloesy: shows [Ac 8c] (high card Ace)
redinfinity: shows [As Js] (a pair of Jacks)
redinfinity collected $27.45 from pot

I understand now how he can easily have had a better hand though. Thanks.
Glad it worked out for you, but don't get roped into thinking this will be the case very often. As most will tell you, results don't always paint the whole picture. I'd also make a note on this guy and try to play with him a lot. Anyone who raises UTG at an 8 handed table with Ac8c is just asking for you to take his money.
AJ, Quote
04-05-2008 , 11:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doublez-Down
Glad it worked out for you, but don't get roped into thinking this will be the case very often. As most will tell you, results don't always paint the whole picture. I'd also make a note on this guy and try to play with him a lot. Anyone who raises UTG at an 8 handed table with Ac8c is just asking for you to take his money.
Agreed. Villain was a friggin moron.
AJ, Quote
04-06-2008 , 01:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doublez-Down
You could also read HOH Volume 1, the section regarding the Gap concept (believe someone else actually coined the phrase but forgot who). Basically says if you're going to call a raise from someone in EP, you need to have a hell of a hand (not exact words but same idea). AJ doesn't fit this criteria.
It was David Sklansky I believe.
AJ, Quote
04-06-2008 , 01:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redinfinity
I just got started playing - but not entirely serious on this game yet.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet, but if you just started playing perhaps you should be at a lower limit.

I guess this could depend on your BR as well, and how much you will be comfortable playing with and most likely losing (sorry, but the reality is that most of us who start out, start out losing...a lot), but it might help to start out at lower stakes to develop the fundamentals of the game.
AJ, Quote
04-06-2008 , 03:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by runner_runner
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet, but if you just started playing perhaps you should be at a lower limit.

I guess this could depend on your BR as well, and how much you will be comfortable playing with and most likely losing (sorry, but the reality is that most of us who start out, start out losing...a lot), but it might help to start out at lower stakes to develop the fundamentals of the game.
I did start out at 0.01/0.02 and eventually moved up as I felt comfortable. I bought in with 25 and with a little bit of ups and downs i'm at 95 now. I'm still learning a lot as I go though. I'm pretty comfortable at these limits right now.
AJ, Quote
04-06-2008 , 06:38 AM
$95 is nothing for 25nl. standard recommendation is 20 buyins for your bankroll. You could do with less if you were a proven winner with low variance, but 3 or 4 buyins can disappear in about 10 minutes, even if you play perfectly. 20 buyins is not a cushion to cover your mistakes, but rather to absorb the inevitable downswings.

A good way to pace yourself is to maintain 20 buyins for whatever level you're playing. It's a little weird at the nano levels with deep buyins on stars, but $25 is probably plenty for .01/.02. As your balance increases, use the excess to take "shots" at the next level, but move down instantly if your balance gets close to what you need at the lower level.

This is kind of a silly exercise in bankroll management, because (I hope) $50 isn't too hard for you to come by, so going bust isn't really a risk. What it does is provide some metric forcing you to prove you can grind profits at a level before moving to the next one.

Last edited by gedanken; 04-06-2008 at 06:54 AM.
AJ, Quote

      
m