Adjusting hands that PokerStove includes in certian ranges
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 651
I'm trying to study ranges (something I know semi-novices like me need to do a lot of) and I've been using PokerStove lately to analyze my hands. I know that Stove comes up with its calculation based on a all-in scenarios to the showdown, but I think I need to adjust a lot of the hands it says has a higher value over others when I'm trying to put opponents on hands. Here are a couple of examples:
If a villain has a 25% VPIP, Stove says it should include hands like K6s but not the small pairs 55-22. This seems way off to me. Is someone (who's not an total idiot) really going to play a trash hand like K6so over 55? It gets even wackier wacky at 35%. Stove suggests that complete garbage like Q5s or K7o or 97s is better than 44. Hmmm.
I understand how technically this works, but I'm wondering how I should adjust my reading when using Stove. I'm trying to memorize (more or less) what kinds of hands get included in certain ranges, but I don think at the higher %'s Stove is a good guide.
How do you modify some of these hands? Which ones should I remove or add do you think?
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 406
You're pretty much spot on about stove ranges, it just takes the top% and not some of the more common ranges you see in play. it is really villain dependent and there really isn't any type of rule but you already seem to recognize that. Some guys will defend with K6o, some guys will have a 3-bet of 4% but will be doing it with all pairs, but pokerstove simply takes the top 4% of hands. Just use the ranges as an estimation. And as far as hand strength Q5s vs 44 is two overs plus equity from the suitedness, but it is practically a flip if all in preflop.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 106
analyze what hands opponents are doing what with by watching hands which you aren't involved in after a while you get a feel for what more common ranges are.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 23,783
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 25,238
You have to put in people's ranges .... not just put in the percentage of their VPIP or PFR. The top 25% or whatever of hands when run hot and cold doesn't match up to the hands that someone playing 29/25 raises pre-flop. Plus the same 29/25 guy will have a lot of different stuff in his range when he raises UTG and when he raises on the button. UTG his range will be smaller and on the button it will be wider. And different people may open different hands even if they open the same %. Maybe some raise all AXs's while another raises SC's and suited 1 gappers ..... same like offsuit gappers in late position while others raise KXs's. Etc.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 11,903
One thing to bear in mind about Poker Stove's hand ordering is that hands are ordered by their preflop all-in equity versus two random hands. Thus Poker Stove's top 20% includes a number of hands that play terribly postflop -- when they get postflop action action they are often dominated -- and leave out hands that play well, i.e. hands that are easy to get away from when they flop poorly but pay off big when they hit. Small and medium pocket pairs get left out, and weak suited (or offsuit!) aces and kings rank higher than maybe they ought.
