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AA KK pre-flop AA KK pre-flop

04-03-2008 , 07:12 AM
Okay, I need some different opinons here. I usually choose to go all in (any position) pre-flop with either AA or KK. I think this is the best move because they are the strongest hands pre-flop, so I play them as such. After the flop they lose their value with each card that is turned over. Why would anyone slow play these hands when the fish can beat them so easily after the flop?
AA KK pre-flop Quote
04-03-2008 , 07:34 AM
.. And most of a times You will find Yourself taking no more chips from the hand - just the blinds, maybe sometimes one limp or more. Is this the result You wish for with such a hand on preflop?
AA KK pre-flop Quote
04-03-2008 , 09:00 AM
Hopefully OP you're talking about going all in as a result from raise, 3 bet, 4 bet and then a shove. Otherwise your play is as transparent as air. What hands would you expect to call a open shove? what hands would you call a open shove? all you get is the blind and maybe some initial raise and then ones every 200 something times you kings faces aces and your aces faces kings. That's the only hands that'll give you action. You obviosly need to disguise your hand a bit better witch is easy with these hands as you simply open them as anyother with your preflop raise and 3-bet as you would with anyother 3-betting hand. If facing a 4-bet sure then you might shove.
AA KK pre-flop Quote
04-03-2008 , 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sideshowk79
Okay, I need some different opinons here. I usually choose to go all in (any position) pre-flop with either AA or KK. I think this is the best move because they are the strongest hands pre-flop, so I play them as such. After the flop they lose their value with each card that is turned over. Why would anyone slow play these hands when the fish can beat them so easily after the flop?
No disrespect intended, but it's a bit ironic that someone who promotes shoving with AA and KK preflop from any position is also calling other people fish in the same paragraph. If that is your play, then perhaps you might check behind your ears for gills.

AA and KK should not be slowplayed (unless heads up trying to trap, and then only occassionally), but going all-in right off the bat with these hands is also a rookie (fish?) move. Raise them 3-4BB just like any other open raise; re-raise the size of the pot if someone has already open-raised. Going all-in is only going to win you a very small pot, usually just the blinds.
AA KK pre-flop Quote
04-03-2008 , 10:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sideshowk79
Okay, I need some different opinons here. I usually choose to go all in (any position) pre-flop with either AA or KK. I think this is the best move because they are the strongest hands pre-flop, so I play them as such. After the flop they lose their value with each card that is turned over. Why would anyone slow play these hands when the fish can beat them so easily after the flop?
Let me paint a picture for you.

Late stages of a sng, you are utg and there are 4 ppl left. You have KK and have been seen as a fairly tight/weak pf player. The small blind is an aggressive player that attacks weakness, so you flat call UTG, let them raise it up (or one of the other 2 players) and then you can reraise if say the small blind raises and bb calls or you can flat call if it will go heads up post flop. If the flop is something like Q-3-6, and they bet, you can raise them to half the pot or so and they will put it all in if they have a Q or maybe even JJ or 1010 depending on how agg they are.
AA KK pre-flop Quote
04-03-2008 , 10:47 AM
Raise PF and isolate to a HU situation. Its rare that someone calls with SC and if they did so be it you priced them out and they still called. That's what you want - the fish to call. Only shove if the blinds are huge ( and are a big % of your starting stack) or there is a ton of action before your turn.
AA KK pre-flop Quote
04-03-2008 , 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doublez-Down
No disrespect intended, but it's a bit ironic that someone who promotes shoving with AA and KK preflop from any position is also calling other people fish in the same paragraph. If that is your play, then perhaps you might check behind your ears for gills.
That cracked me up but it is so true. You choose to shove with these big hands because you lack confidence in your postflop play and don't know how to value bet properly. Even worse perhaps you find it difficult to make a big laydown when you think your hand has become second best. This isn't meant to be harsh by the way as I used to do exactly the same thing as you when I started out. But shoving your entire stack in to pick up the blinds (in cash games) is far too much of a risk for the potential reward. Work on your play, and eventually you will be able to maximise the value of monster pairs like AA and KK. The only time you should be getting in with these hands preflop is if you are getting 4-bet.
AA KK pre-flop Quote
04-03-2008 , 09:16 PM
I tried an experiment not long ago

1) pick a micro nl cash game (mine was .01/.02) NL on Stars

2) Buy in to as many tables as possible for the minimum buy-in

3) Raise all-in pre-flop whenever you're dealt AA, KK, AK or QQ

4) Get called as often as not and make a profit

I was surprised to find it actually worked - in those games you will get calls from AQ, KJ, JT - all kinds of junk, so OP's strategy probably works if the game is weak enough. Can't see it working above .05 NL though.
AA KK pre-flop Quote
04-04-2008 , 05:22 AM
I think the OP is missing a piece of fundamental poker understanding: it doesn't matter if they hit the occasional fishy straight or backdoor flush. You don't need to, and cannot, win every hand. It's about EV - as long as they pay too much to draw then you make money over the long term.
AA KK pre-flop Quote
04-04-2008 , 05:36 AM
I personally just raise it high enough to where I can get it heads up or 2 other ppl max. Then depending on scary flops I raise a nice size bet to see where the heck the others r at and try to pinpoint a hand they might be drawing at. They r still just 1 pair though so don't go Dirty Harry with them.
AA KK pre-flop Quote

      
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