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0 PFR stats in micro sit n gos 0 PFR stats in micro sit n gos

03-08-2016 , 07:33 PM
Haha alright I plead guilty , but in my defense when i said GTO as I was missusing the concept apparently I just wanted to say I got interested in optimizing my play that's all. So since I can see you've been around here for so long, what's currently in 2016 microstakes SnG the bread and butter for me? I mean what kind of litterature should I be reading, what kind of concepts should I be learning etc...
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03-09-2016 , 03:34 AM
you were already recommended moshman's book, which will tell you how to fold a lot early and when to shove late
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03-09-2016 , 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puma1
what I have noticed is that almost NEVER raising in those sitngos i play turns out quite well...
For a small proportion of people, the super-passive style will work, due to rungood/variance. (When I used to play 2NL, some of the biggest winners were SLPs that played 26/5 or something like that. These players would get crushed by better players at higher stakes, but did fine against even looser players and aggrofish, and even some of the nits, especially if they ran well in binking flushes, straights and sets, because they rarely risked a lot of their chips, and never fired c-bets with air into the abyss against calling stations, like some bad regs do.)
In addition, in the very softest games (e.g. live games with lots of passive limpers and payoff wizards) the standard ABC TAG style is not necessarily the most profitable. There are exploitative lines that can make more money. (e.g. in a hand analysis for a live game, someone might say "overlimping is better than iso-raising in this spot").
However, the standard/ABC TAGs will make money than the loose passive calling stations on average, since the TAG style is closer to whatever is optimal against the entire player pool. If playing 32/3 was really optimal, all the best players would play like that. But it's not, so they don't.
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03-09-2016 , 12:52 PM
But you are talking cash games if i'm not mistaken? From my experience there is quite a difference between cash games and SnG even on microstakes as I do much much worse when being put on a cash game table. Or would you say you're analysis goes for SnG as well?
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03-09-2016 , 01:34 PM
Being loose passive works somewhat at cash games because the blinds are always the same and you can always reload, it doesn't work well in SNGs for the opposite reasons.
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03-09-2016 , 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmahaFanatical4
There's really no reason why a 30/0 style couldn't work if you played well after the flop, but it's certainly not an optimal approach.
The main reason is good SNG players (and SNGs are reg heavy at most levels above the very bottom) will recognize him immediately, give him no action early and ICM him to death late.
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03-09-2016 , 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurn, son of Mogh
ICM him to death late.
I am aware of the concept of ICM but i don't understand what does "ICM him..." mean? Isn't ICM used to work out prize pool equity based on number of chips you have and therefore probably correlates with push/fold charts? Can someone explain this to me please?
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03-09-2016 , 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puma1
I am aware of the concept of ICM but i don't understand what does "ICM him..." mean? Isn't ICM used to work out prize pool equity based on number of chips you have and therefore probably correlates with push/fold charts? Can someone explain this to me please?
It involves the $equity of push/call ranges. The $EV of shoving vs the $EV of risking going broke.
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03-09-2016 , 03:18 PM
Yes I understand this but why will a good SnG reg familiar with ICM,exploit someone with 30/0 stats more than someone with 20/15 stats?
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03-09-2016 , 03:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puma1
Yes I understand this but why will a good SnG reg familiar with ICM,exploit someone with 30/0 stats more than someone with 20/15 stats?
If I'm playing against a 30/0 on the bubble or ITM, since 30/0 by definition is never raising, I get to see flops in position or shove with huge fold equity.

I just abuse you until you fold away your chips. Unless I notice you adjusting and NOT being 30/0 any more. But by that time you're too short and I can get it in against you as a 2:1 dog when called and still be in good shape if I don't suck out.

Late stage shallow stacked, most weak players fold way too much.
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03-09-2016 , 05:40 PM
I understand but as the blinds kick up I wont be calling with something i'm not willing playing for at least 3x BB so it's not like I will keep on limping with K9s/Q9s etc... and allow being pushed off hands. I adjust in a way that I only call with top 15% of hands roughly. But I can see you're point, I still have no fold equity which can be gold when 10-15BB deep.
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03-09-2016 , 09:25 PM
If you are tightening up as the blinds increase, which is what your post implies, you are doing it wrong.
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03-10-2016 , 10:10 AM
Well depending on position i am opening from in the table but yes I do tighten up slightly, I am familiar with the common theory of opening you're ranges when in latemid/ late stages of the tournament but since you are only about 20BB deep by then if you raise 3x BB with something like K10 and face a bet on the flop you didn't connect with or even get reraised PF what than? I found classic TAG late stage tournament strategy on microstakes SnG to be quite a chip eater in case you don't connect with the flop if you follow it to a T on microstakes SnG since people are not really folding if they connect even slighly with the flop and/or are willing to go all in with A6+ preflop so fold equity isn't something big here. I'm just explaining my reasoning specificly from what i've experienced playing microstakes SnG. I understand my strategy is suboptimal with the whole 30/0 approach generaly, but as far as late stages of tournaments go I would say this is the phase i found it most useful. I have exploited ABC TAG numerous times with just calling with overpair and getting them to put money in with let's say A9 or 589 rainbow flop. I do however understand that as I would move up limits people would be much more aware of what i'm doing and adjust accordingly, so I intend to learn to push my numbers more towards 20/15 or something but limping when blinds kick up has at least from my limited experience proven better than classic 3x BB raising with opening my range on limits i play.
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03-10-2016 , 12:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puma1
I do however understand that as I would move up limits people would be much more aware of what i'm doing and adjust accordingly, so I intend to learn to push my numbers more towards 20/15 or something
It's hard to aim for a specific VPIP/PFR, focus more on what to do with different hand types from different positions and let the VPIP/PFR figure itself out.
Quote:
but limping when blinds kick up has at least from my limited experience proven better than classic 3x BB raising with opening my range on limits i play.
When blinds kick up, stop 3xing and start minraising. It costs you one more BB than limping, but it makes other people less likely to call which is good.

The biggest, easiest way to chip up when stacks get shallow is by stealing the blinds, and you can't steal them when you limp in. Pay attention to who's folding too much and where they are and when you find someone you have position on, you can just relentlessly steal their blinds until they start to fight back (if they ever do). The great part about stealing blinds is you can do it with literally any two cards, and if you have an SB and BB that just fold every time, you're constantly keeping yourself at least treading water.
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03-10-2016 , 02:46 PM
Yes thank you I figured myself that minraising does the job when I did it I will try to implement it more in my game, I also noticed that when you play vs nit SB and BB cbet on the flop gets them to fold most of the time so this is how I "steal" in those late stages of the tournament.
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