Good Afternoon Video Poker pros. Although poker is the primary game on this site, this thread seems active.

Now that online gambling is almost available in New Jersey - November 26th - for those that are not aware, if you are in the state of NJ, are you going to play?

Will the returns be as good as in the casino? The same?

Has anyone researched the internet companies that are associated with the AC casinos?

Has anyone gotten notification of the soft play opening on November 21st?

Is there any +EV playing online?

Thanks for the reply and very valid points. The casino is a very short drive for me, clean and nice. I discovered better opportunities than this casino (discussion involving Las Vegas casino for those reading out of towners)... I may or may not pursue, in particular on NSUD and JOB. Can't get motivated right now to earn that extra .3-5% opportunities with scouting at the moment, but that may change depending on circumstances.

Just noticed that the Southern Indiana Horseshoe has $1 99.54% JoB (and they don't appear to be $25 coin in = 1 tier credit like the 99.54% games are on the Strip). It's the same distance from Nashville as Tunica, so I may go there when visiting home to make my run at Diamond.

If I understand correctly, it will have the lowest variance so I likely won't lose my shirt even if I don't hit a Royal. Anyone know the expected loss over 10k hands on a $1 machine if no Royal? Obviously, if I hit a Royal then I go home with a fat profit.

Hope u all are taking advantage of today. 7x vp points at b(Boyd) properties, 10x for the casino I usually play at. I unfortunately have to work and do family stuff and couldn't get out there and take advantage.
Would be banging on a single line dollar 9/6 job game right now worth 100.54% or about 27$ an hour. Probably even better opportunity at the other properties.

Some sort of 11-12-13 promotion?

First question; can you make a living by playing video poker?

Just got whooped tonight at a stations property playing .50c single line nsud with 2x point slot multiplier (adding .6 to the expected return for 100.33%). Been running bad in nsud and almost was going to play bonus poker deluxe (9/6). But figured I would break more even on nsud. I figured wrong. $800 down the pie hole in 5 hours. At least got $50 back playing off the points and stil up about $150 for the month. But sucks anyway...that's video poker. Feast or famine. I can look at the bright side, at least it wasn't triple deuces. Probably would of lost in half the time. He he

Stelcat1111....the answer to your question is yes, can play for a living. However...
You need to play games that are positive return (over 100% return), or points, mailers, cash back, etc that make it positive...need a nice bankroll (I've heard 3 to 5 royals for the denomination you play. If dollar single line play, that would be $12,000 to $20,000). For more variant games, the latter end, for less variant (like job or nsud) the former end...
Learn near perfect strategy for the game your playing...
Have an aptitude for pushing buttons...
And a strong stomache and short memory lol

I meant to answer this a little earlier, but I was lazy, etc.

Well, there are a few factors that would weigh my decision on what game to play and possibly where to play it.

How important is losing the least amount possible versus max EV? If losing the least amount possible has any significant importance play 9/6 JoB vs. full-pay joker poker.

Do you want to drink alcohol at all while trying to accomplish this? If so, you must go to Tunica. You have to pay for your drinks in Indiana.

Also, CET is in a state of flux right now with their video poker machines. They are replacing a ton of them. Tunica has recently had their databases updated on VPFree2 after the machines have been installed. I also might be going to Tunica again next week, so I'll be double checking myself. Southern Indiana hasn't been updated yet. There is a possibility they have yanked 9/6 JoB in Southern Indiana, but this is a worst-case scenario. I would think it's still there.

Here are "risk of ruin" calculations of 10,000 hands of dollar video poker assuming flawless play between the two games I would recommend playing for this purpose (based on 5000-session simulations):

9/6 JoB:
$1000: 65.9% (big gamble...wouldn't recommend)
$2000: 22.4%
$2500: 9.62%
$3000: 3.48%

BR w/o Royal ($3000 to start)
Min. 1st Qu. Median Mean 3rd Qu. Max.
0 $1125 $1750 $1775 $2420 $5445

99.92% Joker Poker:
$2000: 35.68%
$2500: 22.54%
$3000: 12.78%

BR w/o Royal ($3000 to start)
Min. 1st Qu. Median Mean 3rd Qu. Max.
0 $770 $1745 $1836 $2765 $7270

So if you fail to hit a Royal, you'll lose $1250 or more half the time.

Thanks for the info


Losing $1300 wouldn't be awesome, but it would be survivable. Of course, if I hit a Royal then I'm walking with $2700 or so profit (assuming the average loss on my other 9999 hands).

Pretty much...insert obvious joke...but that's why it's called gambling!

But also keep in mind, even if you bring $3000, you still will go broke about 3.5% of the time at 9/6 JoB without completing the task. All these VP games tend to act like vacuums when the Royal doesn't show...

I know, I know...8/5, blah blah..I just got lucky, this machine has been really good to me. I have been getting killed playing 9/5 TDB and the VP crack called Shockwave. Some really good posts lately. I saw someone mentioned something about networking for comps, I am assuming schmoozing your host? I am on the wall with this, I have a host that pretty much finds me instantly when I am playing, he'll give me ****, but I do hate being on the casino radar every time I go in. I would be interested in hearing how this tactic would benefit other than free food, shopping, rooms? E-play though, I just don't see it happening..I am all ears, gl to all!!

I think some of the networking mentioned was probably about finding out how much play is needed to get the best mailers from different casinos, so you only give them the minimum -EV play needed to get the offers.

Has anyone tried silver oak casino, i've heard mixed reviews. But they do offer joker poker (99.9), best payout i've seen online

Paging tringlomane or anyone else with any info.

A few questions have been asked over in the LVL FAQ thread about the upcoming CET $150,000.00 Phamous Flush VP Tourney.

1. What is the format? I assume JoB but I couldn't find any info online.

2. What adjustments do you make for tourney play? I seem to recall that you sacrifice some EV to try and hit Royals. And with a tourney with this many runners, you want to play as fast as possible and not slow play.

I and few other LVL regs have a free tourney entry offer and are thinking about playing in it. Appreciate any advice and if you would cross post over in the LVL FAQ thread, that would be awesome.


VP pron from my trip to Vegas back in July for your efforts. DDB all on the same day.









I know the straight flushes don't pay much, but they are still fun to hit. I also hit another 4 deuces with an A kicker that day, but forgot to take a pick. All in all it was a +$2000.00 day playing quarters. LOL.

2K all on one machine or how many different ones?

All different machines. That day, we rented a car to go to Hoover Dam. I hit the big hands at Flamingo, La Hacienda (by the dam), Mirage, Paris and Bally's.

My MO when in Vegas is to stick a hundo into a machine and play it thru, unless the machine is giving me nothing to work with in the first 20-30 bucks or so. If I hit, I set a stop loss, and take my profit and move on. If I lose, same thing, move on.

I don't really believe in hot machines vs. cold machines, but my superstitions do exist. For example, at Mirage, I just went there mainly to check out their remodeled sports book. Got thirsty, and threw 20 bucks in a machine to get a beer. Couldn't miss. Any card I needed to make a hand magically appeared.

I cashed out $500.00 in about 40 mins of playing. Meanwhile, my GF was down $40.00 playing the machine next to me. I said that this machine is hot, try this one, I am taking my profit. In the next 30 mins or so, she cashed out $160.00. So???

Well, the big key is...run like you did in July.

Unfortunately, I don't really have experience in these things since I tend to analyze this stuff more than I play...

But from what I have read elsewhere, it seems to be DDB more often than JoB for these tourneys.

Now should you be changing your strategy much? Well, that depends. Mainly on how the tournament is paid out. There is a benefit to being more aggressive to big wins because you lose nothing if you lose obviously. The problem is...doing really wacky plays won't help your overall winning chances that much unless it's clear you have to make a Royal to win any money.

When you don't need a Royal to win something, I generally would throw away Kings through Jacks for 3 to a Royal, in DDB. I'd also toss Aces through Jacks for 3 to a Royal if it's JoB. This applies to the type of tourney that pays top 10% or more with a somewhat graduated payout.

And also if for some reason it's so top heavy that you really do need the Royal to cash (like top 1 or 2%, or 10% cash but only the top 1% get half of the pool), then I probably go with the "Royal or Nothing" strategy. Hold the best royal flush hand and go for it, as this will nearly double your chances of hitting a royal. I probably make exceptions for AA and AAA in DDB.

Keep in mind, these are just educated guesses given my non-experience. For the effort though, I expect to see more pics of your g/f after your trip.

Thanks for cross posting over in LVL. I knew I came to the right person for the info needed. Now get out there and play more!

Great Run Cowboy...
I like your strategy of play on these DDB games because the paytables are not ideal for long term play... (8/5 ddb has an expected return, ER, of 96.7%, 9/5 has an ER of 97.8...incidentally, 9/6 ddb has an ER of 98.9% and 10/6 DDB an ER of 100.06%).
But short term play? What the hell, throw in a few bucks and let it fly. Alot of of people make a big deal about expected returns, which I think is really just a theoritical bell curve of the game, every session you sit down in, flip a coin and you can be left or right of it. Sounds like you were on the very, very profitable right of it. I do believe that the shorter your amount of play is, the more ER is taken out of the equation. Visiting Vegas twice a year? Find your lucky machine and get it!

Unfortunately, I play vp quite often and ER is something I definitely need to pay attention to. If the game is not 100% or better, or at least 99.5% with slot points, cash back, and comps, I'm usually not playing it. Probably the worst game I play sometimes is BP 8/5 which is a 99.1% ER...but that's usually because it's the best game available, or tied into some big multiplier or progressive or something.

Long term play? Casinos believe in Math. It's the reason they offer VP games. Players should believe in math too. Quickly to make a point. Let's take 8/5 DDB and 10/6 DDB...8/5 DDB has a return of 96.7%, 10/6 DDB has a return of 100.06%, assuming perfect play. Now take two players who play single line dollars, put in 1,000 hands per hour ($5,000 dollars coin-in per hour), play 20 hours a week, for 6 months with perfect play. How did they do statistically? (Not counting slot points, comps, cash back, yadda yadda).
Well, they both played a coin-in of $100,000 per week, $400,000 a month, 2.4 million in 6 months. For every $5,000 per hour, 8/5 DDB lost $165 dollars while 10/6 DDB won $3 dollars. So.....
At the end of 6 months, Player A who played 96.7% DDB lost $79,200 dollars and player B who played 10/6 DDB won $1,440 dollars.
I'm sure the math is right. Like I said, casinos keep video poker for a reason. But short term....anything can happen.

Mathematically speaking that is unsound.

The logic is akin to putting $ on red in roulette on your -5.4% edge spin once versus dozens of times and claiming the odds do not really apply if doing it only once. The shorter the amount of play the more expected value is taken out of the equation? I suppose people do apply the same logic to the lotto so it's not surprising.

You must be new to this thread. Run and don't look back.

Expected return in VP is expressed in long term play. We can agree on that, yes? So, The shorter the play, , the less accurate expected ER becomes. The longer the play, more accurate expressed return becomes. I think the logic is there.

So, I guess I am saying in a way that ER percentages are thrown out the window with one or a few spins. Because it's (ER) a long term theoritic percentage and in the short term, extremely difficult to put an ER percentage to it.... In any game with an expected return percentage.

In your roulette example, during the course of say, a million or millions of bets on red or black, you will get closer, at least theoritically, to that negative 5.4% ER of money wagered on that theoritical percentage. But it may be more or less.
But on a single bet? You will win 100% or lose 100%, which is certainly not the expected return of -5.4%, nor two bets, nor three bets, on and on. and therefore your argument of a strict ER percentage regardless of plays loses some steam.
If you can have an expected return of -5.4% on a single spin of a roulette wheel betting red or black, that's very interesting indeed

Fixed.

Two weekends in a row, only quarters, and I was in for about 500 on the day, it was nuts too, from the moment I sat, until I hit it, is was as bad as it gets as far as misses, I mean playing over 500 in quarters is grueling, I have hit other royals where it's a pretty long bad stretch before it hits, oh well..had a nice free meal, vip parking, played 50 bucks e-play...gotta love a good vp day! GL!!