how does this thread attract so many first time posters? Its amazing

Nope, it only has some of the properties.

Sand is plentiful. In truth, any rare substance can become money. Particular types of sea shells have been used as money.

I'm comparing items I can hold. Art, bonds, stocks, real estate, gold.

In fact, money in CDs or bonds has crushed gold.
The stock hoarders have crushed the gold hoarders. Looking back, who's dumb?

yeah why are we comparing hoarding gold to hoarding dollars? Tooth is right, at least compare the right things. Compare gold vs stocks or gold vs real estate etc...

Obviously leaving a $20 bill in your closet for 10 years isn't going to get you anything.

Dollars are a short term medium of exchange. They're not meant to be held forever. Long term holding of dollars involves being paid interest (bonds or CDs), and long term holding of dollars crushes gold. It's not even close.

He doesn't mean bonds or CDs. He mean paper dollars. You know, real fake money.

a gold ounce 900 years ago is still a gold ounce today. There was no American stock market 900 years ago. There was no American dollar 900 years ago. Gold derives its value because it is money. Diamonds are rare too but they are not fungible, one of the properties money has to be. Dollars are a horrendous store of value, which is a very important property money needs to be.

Also, you can make investments imwoth gold, why do you think China is loading up on it with every increasingly worthless fiat.

You still don't get it, owning gold and owning stocks are a completely different thing. Legit gold and silver owners are not trying to get back more worthless fiat. They are owning gold because paper is not money.

And you still have not responded to Keynes' quotes from his book the consequences of peace. Keynes is literally telling you that his philosophy is going to rob you blind, yet you... And millions upon millions of other Americans support the con system that is meant to inflate away all your wealth.

Keynes was a con man and openly tells you he is a conman, yet millions of Americans still support his scam economic philosophy. It is literally probably the most genuis thing ever.

Think of the power and genuis behind that? Robbing people who have no idea they are being robbed yet also support the system that is robbing them.

They made gold illegal for a reason. Not because it is a useless substance but because they knew that they couldn't rob you unless they brainwashed the masses into worthless paper.

What do you mean why are we comparing hoarding gold to dollars? That the only thing to compare. They are both money. Except one does a million times better job as holding up as money.

Why would we compare gold to real estate? Real estate isn't money. Stocks aren't money.... Yet gold has been money for thousands of years!

You can't make investments with gold? Since when? Didn't people who had an ounce of gold able to buy a city block in Weimar Republic? Gold powers governments too, why else is China loading up? Because it looks pretty? Of course not.

Just because the government de-monetized gold and says it isn't money doesn't mean that's true.

Again, read the Keynes quotes I provided. Keynes was anti gold and he is literally telling you he is going to rob you.

Well, even if I humor you and pretend the comparison to be making is between gold and stocks, sure you are right over a measly 40 year time period where unbacked fiat and investing in the stock market prevailed........that unsustainable paradigm we were in is quickly coming to an end. Just look around you... Fiat is failing all over the world.

Bottom line is... This 40 year keyneisan failed fiat experiment is coming to an end. This 40 year experiment isn't going to be overriding an application that had been money for thousands of years before Christ was even born.

They made gold illegal to brainwash is into paper to suck up all our wealth. Which is why minimum wage doesn't go half as far as it used to 50 years ago.

I have had this conversation before and am not interested in having it again.

In truth Tooth knows that he has a sampling bias and risk problem in comparing stocks to gold the way he consistently presents the comparison.

TS is less right than he sounds and Michael is more right than he sounds.

The problem is, for many gold bugs, that they become blinded by their conviction and certainty.

Look, congratulations, you have figured out that fiat money is a scam. But there is no guarantee that gold will be what rises out of the ashes. I think BTC is a very real competitor to gold.

This sound ridiculous, but I really think that BTC will be the currency used on Mars.

I'm still trying to decide if this Michael clown is the new handle for mrmusicrecorder and Silverman_2? There have been others as well who come here spewing the same nonsense, get buried and then come back a year later with a new screen name so they can do it all over again.

I like people who say "sure if you look at a tiny 40 year sample". Bro, you can die literally any day, you want to shrug off 40 years? 40 years so far is basically my life time. If that 40 years stretches to another 20 years, that's most of the enjoyable part of my life. You'll excuse me while I use the strategy (stocks) that has allowed me to enjoy 60 years of nice things while you stack gold and silver in a bunker.

Man I get TICKLED at the idea of the preppers I knew in the 90's who have now probably cycled through 6 iterations of their food supplies, and many of them probably died of old age in their bunkers. Every penny they earned wasted on the nuttiness. And at this rate of MAGA, which the gold bugs actually voted in, gold's gains on the year will have all but vanished. How can you not love that?

What is more certain that gold? 6,000 years and counting.

I think you have it backwards. Most people are blinded by their conviction and certainty in fiat.

I mean I have a degree in economics and more or less bought into Keynes economic theory. Then I started trying to figure out what was wrong in the economy. Started learning more about Keynes and then you read the quotes from Keynes and I was like wow... Not only is Keynesian philosophy a scam but he openly tells you it is in his book. And then you see how anti-gold he was, and I was able to easily deduce that what I was taught in college was complete BS.

So it's the people, some in this thread, who are so brainwashed that they won't change their mind and are stubborn with their convictions and certainty of a scam economic philosophy. Even when Keynes tells them that he is stealing from them they don't believe it.

So, no.... It isn't about congratulating me but moreso how when people are presented with the truth from the horses mouth that they don't adapt their thinking about it.


Also, i think it is close to certainty that gold will play an enormous role in the paradigm shift that is coming. The world is swimming in debt and the only way to get things on a sane economic and fiscal path is gold, most likely revaluing it much higher to get things in fiscal order. There is a reason China is buying so much of it.

40 years is relative. It's a long time if you are doing that sort of time in prison, but it is a nothing time frame when comparing this fiat experiment and how there is no way it will override an application in gold that has been money thousands of year before Christ was even born.




And again... You are right about SOME... Maybe even a majority of gold bugs in that many gold bugs wrongly value gold in terms of fiat. Many are buying to get back more worthless fiat, and what you write above is absolutely correct with respect to them. But you are dead wrong about gold and silver bugs who understand that you value gold and silver using ratios against other REAL assets.

There will come a time when silver and gold are overvalued in comparison to real estate or the stock market. And that is when you get out of gold and silver. But right now gold and especially silver are the bargains of the century when measured against other real assets.

1 single itty bitty ounce of silver buys you 6 months of food in Venezuela. That is how undervalued it is.

Oh sweet, silverman is back!

I would invest in gold, because gold is most not rising every day.
I know one who used to sell gold bars to people when he was managing a jewelry store. Gold prices went up to $1,920 per ounce and is now hovering around $1,200 or around that. What it does do for you is sort of protect you against the dollar crashing because you can sell your gold to someone in a foreign country.. You can't really sell property to someone in a foreign country.
It is equally risky.

Churning dollars is the name of the game, and accumulating cash is all part of the end game. You buy assets with cash. A bookie who gets paid by his customers will always do better than a gold hoarder. So will someone who owns the rights to slot machines at McCarran airport, or someone who owns Exxon over most any time period.

People in this thread talk right past each other. The guy who has the most assets in companies, also has the most cash (Buffett). Cash is the means to the end, but also part of the end, because if you are churning dollars in a positive way over time you will have claims to more of society's resources.

A real estate hoarder like Donald Sterling is similar. He never sells. Just churns the rent on about 150 apartment buildings built up over 50 plus years. Buffett churns cash with publicly traded companies. Nobody in history ever made a fortune in precious metals by starting with a small amount, but you read about librarians who live frugally who leave millions when they die, and people around them don't believe it.

Positive cash flow in any business over time is the way to go.

What do people think? Fixed delusion in the clinical sense, or just a particularly stubborn classification error that he can't let go of?

"Gold is money. Nothing else is money. Buy gold if you want money!" is what it all comes down to. The rest is noise around that.

I guess the truth lies somewhere in the middle. While the current system is certainly going to fail someday, our central banks,while having no solutions for the current situation,will just print it out
This debt inflated system will keep growing. I forgot the name but a pretty famous hedge fund guy recently said bubbles all inflate to an unimaginable extent...and then double
So you can share your opinion about needing silver/gold in your portfolio and probably its a good thing to have, markets will look for save heavens in stressful times. But it will take years maybe decades until we see the "big Change"

I can promise you that buffet has LOTS of gold, even though he has publicly disparaged it.

Exactly, you buy assets with cash.Gold is an asset. Buy a decent amount of gold with your ever increasingly worthless dollars while you still can. Just like China, russia, India, and central banks are all doing.

You are so smart, way smarter than me. Love all your posts in other threads... you are like the Milo of 2+2. But like 99.99999% of the unwashed masses you just can't understand for some reason that gold is money. Ill never understand how so many people can not process something so basic.

Gold is the money of kings, silver is the money of gentlemen, barter is the money of peasants – but debt is the money of slaves.

Imagine you have been blind your whole life. And then, all of a sudden, you can see, and you open your eyes. What do you see? ironically, blinding light. Your eyes are not prepared to distinguish between the variations in wavelength that create color and other subtleties of sight.

This is what has happened. He may well be delusional, IDK. But for now, he has the benefit of the doubt in my mind.

Michael (so long as you are not a troll account with your like 16 posts) good for you, you are participating in the conversation. You are right there is something wrong with the dollar based system. It leads so suboptimal social outcomes.

People who were / are marginalized and exploited by the machine have trouble seeing beyond their ultimate truth. But, beyond truth lies wisdom.

I would say the same thing to you.

Why do gold bugs always insist that you have to compare gold to fiat and not the stock market, and then use that as the basis for their argument that the stock market is a scam?

You can't have it both ways, dummies.

But how did you get the gold in the first place? Unless you dug it up and smelted it yourself you converted fiat money for it. How do you get stocks or real estate or tulip bulbs or whatever you feel will make your personal wealth grow? You convert fiat money for it.

Gold and stocks and real estate etc. are a 100% apples to apples comparison. No sane person will tell you that putting a stack of benjamins in a suitcase and burying it in the back yard is sound investment advice. I could say the same thing about gold. Assets that provide growth or income are far more valuable.

Lets say we live in a weird science fiction story. Tomorrow we wake up and magically all of the gold in the world disappears. How does life change? It doesn't really. Gold really has no use and is the biggest scam of all of mankind.

Ummm? Because gold has been money for thousands of years and then it was de-monetized in favor of unbacked fiat. So you are comparing money to money. Gold vs dollar.

1 oz of gold = 20$. 100 years ago.

Today 1oz of gold = $1,200

What has changed? Not gold. The dollar has changed and been utterly destroyed to benefit the elite at the expense of the common man.

Probably the most important thing money has to be is a store of value. So you aren't comparing gold to the stock market, the stock market isn't money. You are comparing gold to another perceived store of value in the dollar and the dollar fails, and gold wins very easily as a store of value.