I'm 22, a senior majoring in economics in a small college near Seattle WA, I'm being flooded with life changing decisions that I'll have to make within the next year. I'd really appreciate some advice on my plan for the future.

My main question is what to do for work and where each job will lead me

Job

I can get into an investment job without all that much effort. And it will probably be just as not worthwhile as I thought it would be. My grades aren't good (don't ask me why, but I don't value grades like others, but my senior year is going better than past years), but I'm very passionate about investment stuff and that shines through in interviews. I think I have an outstanding resume you can't measure traditionally because I already run a few rakeback websites and make a lot of business decisions with them, have managed to play poker, played a college sport blah blah blah all that other fluff. I'd say I'm just really a thinker, and I really like that I can be creative and innovative just by nature. One big negative though, I hate working for other people, having a boss just rips my heart out.
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My alternative option is to live the dream! I've been in a long relationship with a girlfreind who is going to be making 60-100k within the first 3 years at her job. So we together will have her steady stream of income always.

So me living the dream is made up of 3 skills:

Internet Entrepreneur

I've been learning to make websites for a while now. I have a friend who has a lot of entrepreneur ideas that can get big, he said if I set them up I'd be up for half of equity. Also I have 1 big idea of my own I've been workin on for a month or so, I'd like to be able to execute that by myself. But having this skill means I can do whatever I want when I get an idea 5 years from now. If I keep making sites, I suppose I lose at most the hours of labor to make it if the idea sucks, but that's about it. It seems +EV to me to learn.

Investments guru

Investing has been a late blooming passion of mine. I'd like to have a solid frame of mind about all investing and know when and where to go with em. I know the least about this subject though at the moment so I'm not putting anything in stone. I will say though I like golllldddddddddddddd, cuz im bearish on the US economy.

Poker Player

Obv gonna be the most immediately profitable thing outta college. I play 2/4 thru 5/10, and can grind a lot. I'd like to phase myself out of this though, unless something legislative changes everything up. Pokerstars no longer serving WA residents is a little scary, hasn't hit my home site yet though. Poker at the moment just feels a little dead endish. The money I am getting through poker feels like it has an opportunity cost of me forgoing other passions.

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So thats me living the dream or getting a job.

Problems

If living the dream doesn't work out for me, that's 3 or 4 years worth of work kinda down the drain and I'm starting at year 1 at a job. Interviewers are probably gonna ask what I did with myself in those years, I'm not sure I could come up with a good answer if it all failed. So living the dream has its opportunity cost as well as just being riskier.

Numbers

I figure if I get a job in combination with my GF, we can make about 100-150k a year jobs alone. I can still play poker on the side and make 30-40k a year. Sick.

Poker Income

But with the full time grindaholic poker, I think I can make 200k+ a year as a conservative estimate (I'm calculating 120k just in rakeback). I figure we could do something like live on my GF's income while I stack all that cash for something big. I don't know what I would do with about 500k at the end of 5 years. Would I be better off just putting it on a house? Or should I find some type of investment with it?

Entrepreneurship Income

Pretty risky area. I have an idea though that I keep mulling over day after day and I can't find any leaks in the logic and nobody has done it before, it's a modest idea where I provide value to the consumers. None of this get rich quick facebook ap stuff people always try. But I'm gonna say if this idea goes well, It'd make me a millionaire easily, but It'd take time, prob 5 years or more for the site to gain enough momentum. I'm probably going to have no income from being entrepreneur, but long run it could make all these activities a mean to an end for me.

Investments Income

Make some! I really need to study up more on it though


Theres my differing 5 year plans. I am not sure where living the dream will lead me, if it leads me anywhere at all. I think I will be a much happier person living the dream, although I can see myself liking being an investor.

Overall the risk of living the dream is higher, but so is the reward and so is my happiness. Hopefully living the dream can give me some time to find something else I really like to do that is more long term.

So BFI, you guys deal with these decisions all the time! Comments/Suggestions?????

What does your girlfriend think you should do? If you take the business route and she doesn't see the immediate benefits is she going to get all pissy and tell you that you should have gotten a job? Or is she going to encourage you to "live your dream" knowing that starting a business or working on multiple businesses may take time to see the payoff?

Personally, I say go for what you're passionate about. That sounds like you want to 1. not get a job, and 2. start/continue your own business.

I relate to you in the way that I can't stand working for other people or having a boss. I resigned from a full-time job back in May and now I'm basically trading Crude Oil full-time. Although I'm not making any money right now (lost some in September), I'm still actively pursuing my interests while educating myself. I basically work 3 hours a day doing this trading. I get up at 9am (NYMEX opens at 9). I turn on my computer, check out what is going on, and then I just sit here and wait for a signal. When noon comes around, I'm done, I do whatever, get lunch, take a shower, play some playstation 3, maybe go to the gym early, etc. This is the first time in 4 years that I've actually been able to look forward to watching football on weekends or being able to spend time with my family on major holidays. Before when I was working full-time I often worked weekends, had to plan my day around sleeping, and would often work holidays only being able to see my family if I wasn't busy to go home and eat, hoping I didn't get a call to go somewhere then having to leave in the middle of dinner. It was miserable.

It sounds like I'm just being lazy and not doing anything, but in a sense, I'm running my own business. That's the way I see it. In those 3 hours that I watch the charts I can take 1 or 2 good trades and if I have a 100% profitable day, I can make more than I would have if I kept my full-time job working 8 hours. Some days there might be 3-4-5 good signals.

If it ever came to the point where I absolutely needed a job and there is a time gap in my resume because of it, well, I ran my own business. I can sound all technical and call myself an "Independant Investment Manager." I'm taking this risk, having my own 'business,' and if I had to explain to an employer what I did, well, I think I have a pretty good explanation for it. I don't see how someone can fault you for taking a risk. I really hope that I never have to worry about that.

I have a BA in Economics, was in the military for 6 years, worked as a police officer for 4 years, but when it comes down to it, I personally feel like I can't compete with anybody looking for a job because there are hundreds of people competing for one job living in the "Rat Race" while I want to do more than just grind out 8-10 hours a day slaving over work while someone is always looking over my shoulder. I personally know what I'm capable of, but is some employer going to give me the opportunity or is he going to hire some recent college graduate who never went into the military, but was in 30 college clubs and held some form of student government? Hell, I was in the military, deployed 2 times, once to a former war zone, patrolled through towns in the middle of the night, was a police officer for 4 years where I took on a job that most people don't even understand how dangerous it can be, but yet I didn't join any fraternities or clubs or do any volunteer work with young children when I was in college because I didn't really want to deal with it. I was in the Finance Club for 1 semester, but that was pretty lame. So anyways, I bust my ass for 6 months applying to 100 jobs waiting to get that opportunity just to get an interview where in that same effort I could start my own business and make much more money in the future and have all of the freedom that I want. To me, I'd rather have the freedom. I know what it's like to not have that freedom and it sucks.

One thing that stuck out to me was that you said you don't value grades like others. I think you know that nobody else sees it that way. Some employer might pass you over because you don't have a 3.9 GPA. Eventhough you don't value the grades, someone else will. The person who matters will value them and probably ditch your resume. I have no idea, honestly, because I don't really want to deal with it. I finished college with a 3.78 GPA and a 4.0 in my major classes. It was more of a personal issue of getting good grades than it was in trying to prove to someone else that I know how to take tests.

You're young, live the dream.

i caution you against considering your girlfriends income and your own one in the same when solving for this problem. it sounds like she is going to have a great job out of school but i'm not sure how that is relevant for you yet. a lot of things can change, you're young, and it really shouldn't matter what she makes even if you guys were married (you're so young and you don't have kids or mortgages so you might as well think longterm).

if you didn't get good grades then it's extremely unlikely you will get an "investment" job. you might be able to get a sales job and work your way into finance but i'm not really sure.

you put some time into this post and have been successful with poker and an affiliate business so you must have some sense. my guess is that if you are financially successful it will be from blazing your own trail and not climbing the corporate ladder so to speak.

operating on what limited information i have, if i were you i would grind like hell for 2 years and set a goal of trying to make 250k/year and saving 150k+/year after taxes. at that point i would step back and assess my situation and results.

that doesn't mean that going the "corporate" route isn't right for you. you could probably get a 35k/year job pretty easily and play some poker on the side. i just think you have very little chance of being "extremely successful" financially going with this route as your performance in school has been poor and it's unlikely you'll start on a high-EV ladder out of school.

note that being extremely successful financially isn't always the best metric in deciding what job to take. it just seems like that's what you want to do and i think there's almost zero shot taking the 9-5 is going to produce those results for you.

I always recommend anyone to choose the option that they're most passionate about. You have a huge advantage over your competitors having that factor alone. If I were you, I would definitely take the investment job (if you get hired). The potential reward is huge. And it's not like you're doing extra work to get the job.

Regarding your idea, I don't want to bust your bubble but there are a bunch of people out there with can't-miss, no-leaks, logically sound ideas that didn't succeed. After all, isn't that why we came up with the idea in the first place? If it can be missed, if there are leaks, if the reasoning is illogical, we wouldn't consider it in the first place.

Lastly, I agree with Taylor's advice of not combining your income with your gf's. She's your gf. Not your baby's mama.

A lot of people guesstimate that they will make XXX,XXX if they start grinding poker full time. The problem is that they usually extrapolate these huge numbers from a sample size where they play much shorter sessions, and on top of that presume they will study hard and crush harder.... when in reality longer tougher schedule may mean more losing sessions and since the poker environment is getting worse and worse and winrates are falling for everybody aside from Jungleman, your earnings will probably continue to fall as well.

Agreed. Thats why I made a very conservative estimate mainly made of rakeback. If I do as many hands as I would like as a full time player, I can make 400K JUST in winnings. But I'm gonna say I'm not gonna make even close to that because of everything you just said.

My GF is of 4 years by the way, and she will have such an great job outta school for a normal person (I gotta lock that down!). She is on board with all of this, but also realizes the risk this ideal imposes if everything goes wrong and I'm sitting here dumbfounded 4 years from now.

I like the grindaholic-reassess idea. Only problem is I'm not sure on how long poker is gonna be around. And poker is a crucial part of my plan, if I don't have any income in the meantime while my sites/investments accrue, my living the dream plan falls through imo.

Slowhabit, why is the potential reward huge of being an investor who climbs the corporate ladder? It seems to me rewards are much larger/faster if I do things on my own. As far as passion, I'm passionate about investing/markets/entrepreneurship regardless if I'm working for somebody or myself.

where is your girlfriends job? i'm not sure there's much demand for the types of jobs you describe in WA

She's going to be a court reporter. Yes nobody knows this job exists and yes she will make that much.

Were u talking about job market for me? Like investment jobs there aren't a lot of in WA?

Its a little scary to me thinking that I will be completely on my own if I go the route I wanna go, like I really gotta know my ****.

IB/wall street jobs are presumably much less common in WA versus NY, Chicago

Maybe you weren't going specifically that route but it seemed like it.

grinding like hell in poker to generate savings/capital to then slowly transition into investing and your own business ideas sounds like a solid plan. just make sure you don't stick it at it for too long if the results arent there, since the longer you do it the more an opportunity cost there is. set some timelines for yourself and a contingency plan. I don't think if it doesn't go well that you've necessarily shot yourself in the foot in terms of getting back into the workforce since a lot of that is dependent on who you know, networking, how good you can sell what you'd been doing with your time, and what field you're going into.

You think you can make 400K on good end and 200K on bad end, there is absolutely no reason why you should not take 6 months off to see if these numbers materialize.

In 6 months, you can always look for a real job and taking this time off will have no bearing on you getting a job. You can tell employers you traveled.

ya 400k in winnings = hottest run of my life, but its plausible. I've found this last month a much more positive aspect on grinding that can get me through tough times......just play for rakeback. So I like 200-250k (I made this estimate with a modest 1BB/100 winrate, so it can only go up ). Do your best and let the rest happen. This will force me to put in volume and the winnings will come on their own/I won't focus on winnings too much. They are a perk. It's made me a grind train with emotionless battles between regs. It makes me feel a lot better about my poker playin plan.


Not trying to turn this into a "if-then=massive winnings all year" thread tho.

not to be pessimistic or anything but I'm very familiar with this frame of mind so I figured I'd point out that it can def still go down since the poker skill curve is always increasing, if you were to fall below it then you could become -EV in the games you're in and have to move down which affects estimates. but the more likely thing to effect estimates is burn out or not getting in the volume estimates people project. doesn't have to apply to you of course though

Shoot me a PM if you want to get a drink sometime in Seattle and discuss this IRL.

[x] just out of college and doesn't know how the real world works

You need a reality check.

1) When you started "get into an investment job without all that much effort" I figured that was going to lead to because I have family connections but instead it led to some BS about how qualified you are in a non-traditional way.

2) No women is going to support a guy while he wastes his life following pipe-dreams unless she is so hideous she has no other options. If your GF is even remotely average or better she is going to put up with you bumhood for a year at the most then kick you to the curve.

3) Everyone thinks they have a great idea that they are going to make millions off on the internet. After a while you start to be able to pick out the infinitesimally small percentage that do have something based on how they communicate. You also can detect the ones who are just delusional based on how they communicate. You are in the latter category.

"kick you to the curb"

Start your website / entrepreneurship venture and play poker... will give you a break from full time grinder status and allow you to have something to fall back on if poker doesn't pan out as expected. Also, much easier to get a job if you can show that your time was spent trying to start your own business rather than poker-ing.

I created this thread looking for a little cold hearted criticism I suppose, but you are off in some spots imo

1. I already stated I'm wrong about getting easy investment job, without connections I would have to shoot for some pseudo-investment job that does sales as well, and work into full time investing.

2. [IMG], looks like I won't waste my life following pipe dreams

3. While entrepreneurial site ideas are great. They are a huge gamble, I know my sites probably won't work out. But I'm going to put my time and commitment to give them my best shot. I also know that there are tons of ideas out there that seem great yada yada, I have already adjusted my expectations for all of this failure amongst a sea of good ideas. I am expecting nothing from entrepreneurship, but as I've said before it's still +EV to learn how to make sites for the chances I'll have at something truly successful.

Please give me some more specifics on why you think I need a reality check (after all you WILL know better than me). My reality will be to play a ton of poker as long as I can, learn to be a noobie investor who can at least read markets so I can make some conservative value investments, and make a few websites hoping one of them makes it worthwhile. Why does this seem so out ragingly optimistic in need of a reality check? I've been in business decisions before, and I am always the pessimistic guy who is conservative. Hence I'm even creating a thread like this to get feedback before I do something outlandish.

I think you failed to realize the main point. I wasn't implying your GF was unattractive but rather than she would dump you if your plan involves living off her income while you follow pipe-dreams.

Because you are entertaining anything other than getting a job. You don't have a choice here.

Call me an idiot, I don't care. But again what does this mean? Sorry I want to break this down, but it helps me. Why aren't any of the things I just said a real job? Why can't I grind up some money and figure out something to do on my own with it? I will be much happier that way and that would imply that I am going to be better at what I choose to do with the money.

I could probably put some effort in and pinpoint exactly why but after fifteen years of people asking me for money it is easy to recognize patterns in the language used and thus differentiate between the tiny minority of people who are going to make it and the people who are delusional.

Why is the potential reward huge?

I have a job interview as an investment consultant this month (I am a maths/physics grad) so it is relevant to me.