Hey guys. I'm a senior right now, graduating in May with a finance major and math minor. I'm still relatively new to finance, so I'm trying to figure out what jobs I might enjoy best upon graduation next year. Some background on me (tl;dr):

--Much like many of you, I have an extensive poker background. I had dropped out of school when I was 19 and played professionally (mostly tournaments) until I was 23 (went back to school last fall). I had a great deal of success in that time and went back to school on my own volition (it wasn't a BF decision or a "rock bottom" decision as it is for many). Fwiw my GPA is 3.5.

--I love math. It's something I've always been interested in and very good at. My ideal job would be something that works extensively with numbers. I'm also very good at analytical reasoning. I recently took the Bloomberg Assessment Test. While I bombed almost everything related to financial markets and investment banking (as I said, I'm still very new to this), I scored in the 93rd percentile on both the math portion and on analytical reasoning, which validates what I believe my greatest strengths to be. The rest would probably need to be learned on the job through osmosis.

--I'm taking a course on derivatives right now. I find it fascinating, even though I'm probably so raw that I'd be years away from being ready for it. I'd love to be an options trader someday. I really think it's something I could learn to be good at, but it's an unrealistic expectation for next May. I consider that more of a long-term goal. For now, I'm just looking for any type of experience, although I really don't know what I'm looking for.

--I interned at a private equities firm this summer that specializes in triple net lease real estate and some late stage medical venture capital products. I quit the internship when the semester started, but actually decided to become an investor in the firm's last 2 projects afterward. This ultimately lead to the idea to make me a "consultant" to the firm because of my contacts in the poker world. I already got several friends to invest, however they are withholding my commission until after I pass the Series 22 Test (which I'm taking after the semester ends next month).

I mention this because I wanted to make it clear that this path is NOT what I'm looking for. The job was very medial and mundane. The salesmen just cold calling people who they suspect have money all day hoping to get one or 2 people interested every month so they get paid. It really requires no skill whatsoever. I could never see myself doing this, which is ultimately why I chose to quit the internship. Even now as I'm planning to take the Series 22, I plan to do no more than my current "consultant" position with them. Ultimately, I still want to find something that takes advantage of my math and analytical skills.

--I'm not opposed to grad school, but I would rather try to find real world experience first as I think that would be more valuable. A) It's probably too late for next year given that I haven't taken the GMAT's and I have no idea where I'd want to go anyway. B) I'll be 25 the week of graduation. The idea of 2 more years of school before I enter "the real world" kind of makes me throw up in my mouth a little.

--I'm from New Jersey, so NYC and Philly are only about an hour from me.

I really don't know what is out there, what I should be looking for, and where I should be looking for it. Any suggestions or advice you guys can provide would be appreciated. Thanks!

Do you know any programming languages? Seems like you could be a valuable asset to a firm as an algorithm coder/trader?

I do not.

Then you will get a job in sales. Sorry.

Try looking for an entry level derivatives analyst position (I know Metlife in NJ has one)

I graduate in May as well.

My favorite quote and I try to apply it to my life.

"The successful always has a number of projects planned, to which he looks forward. Anyone of them could change the course of his life overnight."

~Mark Caine

The reason I'm telling you this is to give you the idea that you shouldn't focus on one thing right now. Keep a clear open mind. You seem like a smart guy and I like that you don't over estimate your abilities. (That's a basic human trait that gets us in trouble sometimes)

My goal in Finance is to eventually work for a hedge fund and maybe someday become a SUCCESSFUL hedge fund manager. Gotta dream right?

In the meantime, I'm working on several other unrelated projects that could very easily take off.

You can be marketable to a company without knowing a programming language. Would knowing Python or C++ help? Absolutely!

I had an internship two years ago, there were programmers and finance guys. Once the internship started some wanted to learn more. "Crosstrain" would be an appropriate word. I didn't know any programming. The guys that knew programming had a much easier time adjusting to Finance than I did learning Python.

Hope something I said helped. If not...Sorry

First of all, how was the Bloomberg Assessment Test? I'm about to take it in a couple weeks. Anyone have an idea of how much employers will look at this?

I'm a lil confused. How are you so new to finance when your about to graduate as a finance major?


I would recommend you look into different consulting firms. Other than that you probably want to look at working in bank. If you can get an entry level analyst position that would probably be idea, but could be pretty difficult to get.

No, it was def. helpful. Always nice hearing what someone in the same position is thinking. What are your plans for graduation next year?

BAT was very tough for sure. I can't remember the exact format, but there were something like 10 sections: math, analytical reasoning (kind of like riddles), verbal skills (the reading entries were all business related), some interesting "what would you do" type questions (they give you a situation and 4 possible actions to choose from), and then a couple of sections on investment banking and financial markets. Almost everyone needed the entire 3 hours to finish. My derivatives professor (he's a retired hedge fund manager) proctored the exam, but also took it along with us. He scored an 87 on it, and he was in the industry for 30 years.

I had a 4 year gap between classes. Most of my core classes were taken years ago. When I came back, I banged out a lot of my other classes because I wasn't sure what major I was going to go after. It was through the advice of several people who told me they thought I'd fit in best in finance. I didn't even declare until the end of last semester. Most of the classes I have left (including my 18 credits this semester) are the major (finance) classes. I'd imagine most of the other finance majors tend to stretch those classes out over their junior year as well. That explains why I have so little experience with it.

My school's career counselor just told me about an internship opening up at a local Scottrade branch that I will apply for this week. I would love to get something like that. I'm also meeting tomorrow a member of my school's alumni association who is a financial planner. Anyone have any experience with related jobs?

Second hand experience only. Hopefully, this will help, or get some conversation going that will ultimately be useful for you.

One of my friends is a financial planner. A large percentage of it is sales (which you seem to not like the idea of). Clients don't come knocking on your door - you must bring in clients. She is a fee-for-service type, so she is selling her services, rather than selling products - so she can sleep at night. The good part is that she gets to convince people to do smart things with their money. She enjoys that. She gets pretty upset when one of her clients does something silly with their money.

She does make a pretty decent living, but that is because she sells instead of sitting in her office hoping someone will call her. She's not a natural sales pro, but is good at showing what she can offer and gets a decent number of referrals from her current clients.

I've dealt with Scottrade interns at my local branch. Mostly, they seem happy. It is basically a customer service job, from what I've encountered. Helping people set up their accounts, etc.

Either way, getting experience under your belt will lead to something. Taking on internships puts you ahead of your peers in a meaningful way.

Currently, I'm helping an inventor with the business side of an invention that he has. I have a thread started for this on here. I'm hoping that that may turn into something resembling a career. I have a friend that graduated from Vanderbilt. He got a job at Goldman, out of college, and worked there for two years. He now works for a Hedge Fund.

He told me he could get me an interview, but made no promises.

To answer your question, I have no idea. I'm trying to keep an open mind and stay on the lookout.

id suggest looking into working at the structured products or derivatives departments of some banks. derivatives first, structured products second.

It would be helpful if you told OP why you suggest this.

Send a resume to Susquehanna, it's in Bala Cynwyd, right outside Philly. Your background would probably be right in that alley.

JP Morgan chase has a bunch of jobs in Delaware, but they are mostly accounting and private bank crap.

Other than that, I'd say NY.

It's funny you mention that. I read about Susquehanna last year because apparently they use poker as a major part of their training program (and I assume that's why you mentioned it). I had forgotten about them. I should definitely send them a resume. Can't hurt.

+1

Does your friend work for a big firm or is she self-employed? Very helpful post. I kind of thought you were trolling me earlier.

She works for a small private firm. I was a little harsh earlier, but sales is where the money is.

Careful with Susquehanna. They ask you some direct questions, and they are just looking for how you would come up with it.

They may ask something like "you have aces, what is the probability of hitting another ace after the entire hand it dealt out". It's pretty easy if you think about it, but I've talked to people who literally just gave up on it, they have no idea how to come up with it. And they actually don't even want the right answer, they simply want to hear something like

"20 cards dealt, 4 aces in the deck, I have 2, 2 left in the deck with 32 card to go, one burn card, 3 flop, 1 burn, 1 turn, 1 burn, 1 river, my chances are 2 out of 29 to hit it".

In fact, I'm not even sure that's right (is it? or is it 2/32?) I would think the logic would be enough to satisfy what they were looking for.

Also, they could ask a question like "how many ping pong balls can you fit into this room?" And if you think about it that's pretty easy too, not the actual answer, but the logic. Be prepared for weird questions like that.

I didn't mean my criticism to come off as "sales are bad". I can see the merit behind cold-calling people if you're trying to sell them on your abilities and your hard work. There's a selling point there. There's things you can do that should improve your output. My firm was more like you cold call a random doctor, "Hey, if I could get you 7% yield on your money would you be interested?"

No...repeat with next guy

Yes...pass call off to boss...repeat with next guy

Most of the junior salesman are literally converting 0 calls per month despite calling 2000 people/month (only the bosses with established contacts and clientele seem to get all the sales). And as you can see, there's nothing one could really do to improve those numbers; it's luck of the draw. It's not like the product is in anyway tied to me like it would be as a financial planner, where my personal results are my selling point.

Well, let's get an interview first before I worry about this, but that's good to know. I guess it makes sense that they're more interested in the thought process than the actual answer since nothing in investing is absolute.

Did you actually interview with them or did you hear this from someone else? How common are questions like this in job interviews?

Not very, but Susquehanna is known for this. I've talked to at least 3 people who've interviewed with them, and they all told me the same story, and none of them knew each other so it's not like they were making it up. One guy told me he simply gave up on the spot, and the interviewer asked them to try to work it out, and he simply said "this job isn't for me if I can't even begin to think how to answer that". He was kind of a bitch though, I mean, who would simply give up? lol.

Most other jobs simply ask you straight forward questions.

This sounds a lot like the questions you get asked in consulting interviews. They ask you a ton of random questions that there is no way you will ever figure out. They just want to see you go through a logical framework to come up with an answer. Doesn't matter if the actual answer is right.

A sample question I was given the other day was "How many firefighters are in San Francisco?"

I mean, if you answer "about three fiddy" do you think you would get in trouble or would the interviewer just laugh?

You would not get the job.

Brain teasers are super common though, at least in Europe. Been asked tons of them in interviews.

Questions that some people still aren't prepared for are ones like "Give me a specific example of when you were given a task that you didn't know how to complete and what you did to resolve it". I'm amazed that people aren't prepared for questions like this.

In fact, we should start an interview thread. We have these situations/questions come up literally all the time.

Those are super standard questions, I agree. I got a word file with all my answers prepared, but I find those questions so super annoying and so pointless. And it does happen, that I am unprepared for one of those, because you obviously get a new one once in a while.

I'd much rather get asked technical questions though. You at least know how you do on them.

Seems very much like google/amazon interviews from 5 years ago actually.

They are, or, where. This WAS years ago, so I'm unsure what they are doing currently, it's not like I have a contact there.