So...I wasn't 100% sure where to put this, but I thought BFI might be the best fit. (if a mod does move it could they please pm me where to)

Anyways, I'm trying to buy disability insurance. But I'm having a hard time getting someone who can help me. So far, everyone has either gone, I don't know, sorry I can't help you. Or they say "professional poker" isn't an insurable occupation.

Anyone have disability insurance? Got any links/help/personal experience. This is getting FRUSTRATING!!!

Well, I finally found someone that is helpful. My mom works for an insurance agent (as a secretary) so I called her up, and she connected me with her boss. He said that while being a professional poker player is uninsurable in standard terms. He does think however he will be able to get me a policy quote in the secondary market. Basically it's a market for models/actresses/basketball players etc.

Well....I guess I'll keep this updated...so far it's been an interesting trip

Ill be interested to hear what you come up with, gl.

Isn't good disability insurance insanely overpriced for individuals?

All insurance is -EV money wise...(I think all poker players understand that)

But there are 2 types of EV imo....money EV and life EV. I would literally kill myself before I let my wife lose the house (or something like that) because I got disabled and didn't have the insurance and spent all our money on medical bills. (no I'm not being dramatic when I say that, I'm an atheist and look at life like I'm just another animal; I will kill myself before I put my wife through something like that)

At my age of 25 I'm WAY WAY WAY more likely to become disabled then I am to die. I think it's the responsible thing to do if married and/or kids. (with a spouse that no longer works)

Life insurance comes to mind. If you get it now the don't-off-yourself clause will probably have run its course in 2-5 years.

[ ] Understands the differences in expected value and utility

you're going to have a hell of a time finding disability insurance. I write a bit of it and I have never had luck finding anything for people who work from home. It's hard to tell if you can/can't work (from the insurance company's point of view) so they just won't do it.

We don't need to trainwreck this into another "lol you're stupid for buying insurance because it's -EV" thread. Honestly, here is the link to the wikipedia page on utility. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility Read it so you don't embarrass yourselves.

Thank you for including an actual constructive post in this thread. I wish people who had nothing constructive to say would just not post. (after all, I highly doubt people know my complete situation, and this isn't intended to be a "should I get disability insurance thread"...I've already made up my mind, this is a "how do I get disability insurance thread")

If you want to debate whether disability insurance is a good/bad/stupid/intelligent thing to do, go start your own thread.

OP,

You are correct that you are more likely to be disabled in the near term than you are to die. However, you are a professional poker player. The only way a disability would be meaningful to you is if you were disabled in such a way that you couldn't play poker. That would be pretty hard and limit you to really only a handful of disabilities. That's why you should avoid purchasing disability insurance.

Ok...I specifically ask to not derail this thread, then I get STUPID **** like this....WTFBBQ!!!!

1.) I am NOT just a professional poker player, I own a real estate business. Hence I have a higher likelihood then the average poker player because I do things like replace roofs, clean out mold, evict drug dealers etc.

2.) One of my main hobbies is wood working. I use a router/table saw/drill press 3-5 times a week. It would be VERY easy for me to lose a hand/finger etc.

3.) My dad works with metal and owns a lathe/press/MANY other tools for metal work. Every time I visit him he shows me things on the lathe etc. It would be VERY easy for me to lose an arm in a FULL sized metal lathe.

4.) My wife no longer works. She used to; but we're going to be starting a family right around the corner.

5.) I like high risk activities. This year I will bungee jump, para glide, and sky dive at least 1 time each minimum.

6.) I LOVE motorcycles. And I go VERY VERY fast on them. Me + 165 mph on a motorcycle is very common.

7.) I have a family member, that did get disabled, drained his families money, lost the house, and so I've seen it "actually happen." yes I know that just because I saw it happen doesn't 'change' the odds. But having a -EV "bill" would help me sleep better at night.

Now with that said, you can still disagree with me. But, I've already made my decision. I make plenty of money and if I want to "waste in your eyes" some money to allow me to sleep better at night, then so be it.



edited to add: I already have life insurance and a will and everything in place in case I die ldo

Seriously dude, you should have put this stuff in the OP. Especially the bolded part. From your OP, you can't possibly blame anyone for thinking you're a poker pro.

Cliffs: want better advice? write better OP.

IIRC, you also invest in real estate? Can't you label yourself a businessman, join a local chamber of commerce and enroll in one of their collective insurance plans?

Where does your dad keep his lathe?

Also OP it seems like you're more concerned about having good health & life insurance based on those examples. Are you specifically concerned that you would become disabled and not be able to play poker?

The majority of disability is from illness, not injury. TBH you're not very likely at 25 to become disabled or die.

From what I remember from selling life & disability insurance 5-6 years ago it was something like 20-30% of gross salary to insure it for own occupation disability insurance. The only people I found who bought disability insurance themselves was those who sold it. If you were having a bad month you'd take out another life or disability insurance on yourself and collect the commission

You can't insure "real estate" because it's considered "passive income"...so it was an irrelevant stream of income.


edited to add: I also own a few other businesses, but they are also considered "passive income" and completely irrelevant. I want to insure myself from losing the ability to play poker. If I have to sell the real estate business, but I can still play poker, then that won't put my wife or I in a bind the least bit.

My dad was a fabricator for 22 years before he messed up his back bad enough requiring him to find a new line of work.

He keeps it + press + 3 welders + many other tools in his 40 x 40 detached shop/garage. I built it with him when I was in my early teens, and it was intended to be a garage for my car + our motorcycles + riding lawn mower + 3 wheeler etc. However, when I moved out for college, he changed the whole thing into a pure metal shop.

FWIW...he has over $60K in metal tools (that's just the big stuff, not couting all the welders etc. he has) and in his part time does "random" work for local farmers.

Thanks for posting.

It's more of a "my wife sleeps better at night tax" then anything else fwiw. After all, happy wife = happy life

I already have those two TBH, it was the family member going through what they went through that has sparked my interest into disability insruance specifically.

Something like a "Christopher Reeve" plan? wiki

How would you prove a mental inability to reason? A losing streak could trigger a collapse whereas your 75% entitlement would kick in? Crazier policies have been enacted I suppose, but this would be a wild precedent if ever the actuaries could even draft guidelines.

If you're doing these things

.

to generate income, then it's not exactly passive (i.e., you are both an owner and employee of your business).

But my original advice is the same, even if you could find someone to sell you the insurance, I don't know that you would want to buy it. And not because it's -EV (we all agree on that), but because it would take a really unusual disability for you to not be able to play (I'm assuming you play online). You could lose the use of both legs, one arm, and go deaf and you would still be able to play fine (at least that's what the insurance company would say). Heck, even if you were paralyzed from the waist down, you could hire someone to move a mouse around for you for probably less than the insurance premiums.

The main things that would harm your ability to play would be mental illness and blindness, so you're not insuring against much else. It's pretty tough to get a good policy for mental illness (no matter what your profession is). At least blindness is pretty black and white. Maybe there's somewhere you can get a policy specifically for blindness.

If you say that insuring against these things will make you feel better, that's fine. It just unusual. But if that's what you want, I hope you're able to find it.

Hey man, i know you have a bunch of different business not sure how they are set up, but with a C Corp, you can fully deduct disability insurance. From my knowledge it's the only type of entity that you can FULLY deduct this, up to any amount. In fact, I was just talking to my CPA about this today. She and her husband have 3 entity's an s-corp, c corp, and LLLP and she is able to set it up so that she has full coverage for her husband in case of disability as well extra insurance because he is a insulin dependent diabetic.

I believe you are in Florida, and we are too so same rules should apply to you. If you still haven't found out what you are looking for yet let me know and I can email her and ask for any contacts about it or just put you in touch with her. She specialized in trusts and estates and works with mostly 5-50mm+ estates so she def. knows the ropes.

Hope all is well, and terribly sorry to hear about Reef, but thanks for passing along the info.

Deducting disability insurance is probably the worst idea since the benefits are then taxed as income. you need to pay for the disability yourself because then disability income is not taxed (US law not sure where you are)

Using a CPA for corporate structure and asset protection financial advice might be an even worse idea. Use them for accounting.

You are a property manager... Form a company pay yourself a salary as a property manager. Insure yourself as a property manager.