Can't believe how much effort has been put into helping this guy.

OP get ****ed.

$1,400 in operational costs seems reasonable - software costs however are sure to have dropped significantly in the past 5 years as more people enter, and i suspect that even basic negotiation tactics would have pushed the 40k price point down significantly.

What would cost money is hiring software developers to tinker with the source code (depending on the complexity of what he wants to implement) and lawyers to hammer out the paperwork.

On the revenue side, 5k players doesn't tell you anything. If people register and have no reason to play on the site of course revenue is going to stink. If on the other hand he has a unique gimmick that people can't get elsewhere, it's not so crazy to imagine getting 5 tables running during evening hours generating something to the tune of $10-$50/h in rake each.

The problem is to keep it going. If several of those players don't match up exactly, at some point the site will die. Since they will each log in, and then not find games and leave. Marketing will take significant $$$. And that site actually generated a whopping $15k in rake in a year and is now defunct.

Is marketing significant though?

I have no idea how cost effectively he can get downloads or convert those downloads into real money players but you can approach it very incrementally by testing out different methods and scale up the ones that work. You pay per impression, figure out your click through and conversion rates, and pour more into the sources that're getting better results. Understanding how to market effectively is part of turning this into a successful business.


That there're examples of failed poker sites doesn't really say much. A lot of people entered that space expecting to make money without knowing anything about the industry. There're also a lot of examples of sites that are significantly smaller than stars/888/party who've done quite well and continue to.

OP, congrats on your MBA in entrepreneurship. Do you have much experience to go along with it? Based on your posts so far it does not seem like you do.

I would also recommend posting your idea in this thread for more feedback: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/3...prove-1132963/

OP,

Since it seems like you want to do the cheapest-possible version of launching an online poker site, I suggest contacting one of the poker networks (Microgaming or iPoker) and speak to them about their licensing costs. Your costs there will be some sort of initial setup fee and ongoing licensing, the graphic design of your client (you can just slot your pictures and colours into their pre-existing clients) and not much more. Obviously, you'll have much more control over the underlying product if you build your own client, but since you don't seem to want to spend $10m+ to build your own, this is another way to achieve it.

I imagine that if you're willing to take an off-the-shelf version of an existing network client, you can probably deploy for six-figures (USD100,000 to USD1m) rather than eight (USD10m - USD100m).

If this is actually where the OP is coming from it's an insanely strong negative ad against degrees in entrepreneurship. Even typing that it feels like it shouldn't be a thing. Such a silly idea lol.

It was actually one of the more helpful critics ITT that had the MBA in entrepreneurship. You could tell that he took a very MBA driven approach to his analysis of the viability of this idea and business and OP would have done well to listen to him.

The successful ones usually started earlier though. And there have been a lot more examples of websites that did quite well and have folded. I lost like 3 deposits in several of those sites.

It is just not an attractive business model if you are not one of the top sites. You need to keep out the sharks, it has quite high fixed costs, there is a network effect (so the larger you are, the bigger your advantage).

And when people gamble, over time the sharks will learn to quickly empty the fishes pockets, so they will stay away, and the sharks will not play each other much and be very demanding (want rakeback etc). On top of all that you are in a declining industry.

With a regular gambling site you slowly bleed your marks, but here most of the gains actually go to the good players who will then stop playing once they run out of fish. Unless your rake is really high, but then it is hard to find a lot of players. When I played, I mostly bum hunted. And the amount I took from the average player's deposit was a LOT higher than what the house took.

If i did this, I would limit it to third world countries. marketing is cheaper, fewer sharks and more fish (means a deposit lasts a lot longer), operating costs are cheaper, and customers are a lot less demanding. Plus the market in those countries is probably wide open still. And you have less regulations and bs to worry about as well.

I like this idea btw, if you set this up in Asia, and have some business savvy and let's say $200-300k in starting capital, it could work well:

https://www.pokernews.com/news/2017/...ivey-29355.htm

But would have to be quick.

No need to trust the poker site's managing of funds, or its RNG.

There're a lot of relatively new sites that're doing just fine and because a site folds doesn't mean it didn't make a lot of money for it's owners before shutting down operations.


That's the point of contention, and i'd argue you're wrong. How much could you really know about the financials for medium traffic sites? Finding specific examples of sites that failed doesn't prove anything - and when a company shuts down operations it doesn't mean that it hasn't generated significant profits for it's owners before that. A lot can change over the course of 5 to 10 years. You don't need to have made millions to count it as a success.

Network effects aren't that debilitating - even if you aren't part of a network, there're tons of small time grinders willing to try a new site out for competitive rakeback programs. Sure, it's a disadvantage, but the real reason sites fail is because they don't offer anything that people want that isn't already available.


Declining and still huge. Even the most pessimistic stats suggest that the volume of play is comparable to the late 2000's. The fact that it declined in the years following black friday doesn't mean there isn't opportunity. It isn't going to zero any time soon.

If true (which i doubt) it probably means they were being too generous with their prop accounts. There are a lot of aspiring pros eager to play on site that offer reasonable prop rates in the 60-80% territory. In addition you can have accounts that pay 100% with the requirement that they occupy tables at fixed times and cannot refuse action to ensure against a lull in activity.

There're a lot of ways to approach it - this is a minor problem if you have a product that people want, and you can get the message out cost effectively.


How could you possibly know how to approach the marketing without knowing what the product is?

I would say that if you are so sure it could be really profitable, what is stopping you from trying it out?

I don't have an idea for a product that i think would interest people enough to register.
It's also a lot of work and like most people in this forum i have other priorities that i'm heavily invested in.

If i did have an idea i believed in though and lived in a country where it could legally be operated out of i would give it serious consideration.

Cool thanks for this, will check them out.

That's neat and far lower than some of the numbers ITT.

Sorry for being rude to people being rude to me. Maybe take your own advice and get ****ed.

That wasn't me, but another guy.

Someone else already linked that thread and I responded to it on page 2, they weren't really interested in discussing it after that. Although off hand, I do generally understand that it's trying to say and think it has some merit for some people.

Yeah I've read this from a few different people and it's well worth looking into, although I'm not necessarily looking for the "cheapest possible" as much as I am trying to gauge the costs and where I should even go, if I do pursue this.

I have been working on my pitch and finalizing the idea so to speak, so perhaps if it goes further than a larp, I will let people know. Thanks for the post though.