Isn't the seasonal flu passed from animals to humans every year?

No.

It remains in the background all year, when cold weather forces people inside and there is less sunlight/humidity, it can spread more effectively and whatever strain that is most transmissible due to antigenic drift outcompetes the others.

New cases are on the rise in the UK as you stated.

Yes, government dragged its heals over a travel ban to/from India, a country we have a lot of inflows from, and now we are reaping the benefits.

Shuffle do you agree that you are, in fact, arguing the bolded?

BTW that is one of the most repeated and least understood fallacies continually repeated and used on this forum against any and all forms of covid measures. Basically 'do nothing as nothing is 100% effective'.

Most recently we saw Tooth and few other ignorant to their use of that fallacy when they argued it would be of no benefit or use for the US to have gathered up multi tons of PPE (masks, etc) early in the first wave of the pandemic (Feb) to have ready to supply to the most vulnerable front line workers, as it would not have been enough masks for all, so why bother.

Of course that is simply fallacious logic and while i do not expect Tooth to understand why, I think you should be able to recognize that??

Great listen. Also very frustrating.

I 100% have no idea what to believe when it comes to ivermectin.

That's more frustrating than anything else.

Here's a clue.

If the MSM and medical cartels are trying to suppress it, it probably works.

European CDC:

Busy but needed to step in to de-cuck this comment.

Doesn't that imply that the species jump to human transmissible virus, is relatively unsual?

Seasonal flue is not the same as a pandemic and antigenic drift (which causes seasonal flue) is not the same as antigenic shift (which causes pandemics).

Im not going to call you a moron, but I am going to call you a 100% confirmed fantasist.

There is no evidence to support the the above statement.

Just as likely = pure fantasy, more likely = insanity.

The one significant known cross over, in Denmark, from mink to human, all resulting variants are now extinct. Because they were specialised for Mink, they turned out to not do so well in humans.

Corona is also not universally equally transmissible in all mammals.

The number of cats and dogs, animals in most proximity to humans that have been found to be infected, despite some significant inquiry, is statically irrelevant.

The Nepal variant is very similar to the Indian variant, given the massive numbers of human infected in India, it is basically infinite magnitudes more likely the Nepal variant occurred due to antigenic drift in an infected human.

What the **** are you even talking about now?

You lurch from strawman from strawman, with no actual interest in rational discussion, just pimping your fantasy.

I have made no comments about where the disease came from.

However even if it came from a lab, that is not the same as it is equally transmissible across mammals.

That is a massive assumptive leap you are making, because the fantasy needs pimping.

The one actual example we have of an in the wild variant that crossed species is now extinct because it was pretty **** at spreading between humans, compared to variants that had arose in humans, which absolutely outcompeted it to the point of total annihilation.

Your problem is that you absolutely want to arrive at a given conclusion, so you will simply join dots that dont exist to arrive there.

Nothing is gibberish, this is just really lazy handwaving by you.

Strawman and handwaving, you are beaten absolutely.

Lol the lazy msm accusation, fail harder.

The only absolute gibberish statement to the point of actual insane fantasy, that has no possibility of being confirmed by anything even resembling an authorative source is that the Nepal variant most likely arose in an animal.

An absolute garbage statement, that no one can state and ever be taken seriously again.

I dont read those newspapers.

The idea that the Nepal variant did not most likely arise in animals, has nothing to with such (I assume) low hierarchy information sources.

Its based on simple understanding of the basic elements of the current situation.

Your train of thought is so far from rational, its beyond absurd, its the worst kind of yourtubes comments fantasy, the sort of thing I expect to see in a frothing comment in reply to the worst kind of tin foil **** you see on social media.

You are in the abyss of intellectualism trying to claim the high ground.

You are a joke.

We only have evidence of one major variation transmission between a specific species (mink), and humans, those variants are all now extinct, no human is carrying them.

That is the end of the Nepal variant most likely arose in animals debate.

Its not impossible, just very very very unlikely, given the high incidence of Indian variant in humans, which the Nepal variant is very similar to.

Corona coming from a Lab, does not change this.

Where did I flat out deny it started in a lab?

Strawman harder.

Yes cases have been detected in other animals, but the only significant variant has been known to cross from humans to animals, that variant went extinct precisely because its protein spike was specialised for Mink and not humans.

Try being rational here.

The virus is not some monolith that is equally and universally transmissible across each mammalian species, that this even needs saying is unbelievable.

Humans just dont know how to make anything like that, not even close, its probably not even possible, there is just to much variations between species.

This is why some things that are deadly to one species are not even noticed by others.

The main danger to the vaccination programme is the lack of vaccinations in other countries, not animals.

The virus will spread, variations that are uniquely suited to competing in humans will arise.

So trying to get to 80% or so human vaccination is a no brainer.

Only someone who has a black and white record or arguing against vaccines, such as yourself, would not see this simple and obvious truth.

The way you keep spamming engineered in a lab shows you are making massive assumptions about the nature and consequences of that engineering.

It was engineered in a lab so its a given all animals can catch and spread it equally is a perspective that is beyond naïve.

This is just lazy handwaving by you.

Natural or Lab does not change in anyway the factual architecture of the debate.

It only does because you think lab engineered somehow gives the monolithic ability to transmit to all mammals equally, something that is beyond human understanding to achieve if its even possible.

As a fantasist, you are ascribing powers to this virus that one might see in science fiction, strong emphasis on fiction.

Again, only one variant of wild is known to science to have made the leap from animal to human, and that variant is extinct precisely because it was too specialised to the originating animal, e.g. Mink.

All the evidence give absolute support to the idea that delta(Indian) variant and Nepal variant most likely arose in humans, and lab engineered or otherwise has no bearing on this conclusion.

There is a tiny remote chance it arose in animals. Saying most likely is a joke of a statement.

Facts.

One variant is known by science to have spread from animal to human in significant number.

That variant is now extinct, again science shows this is because of specialisations for the host animal (mink) making it less competitive to variants that had arose in humans.

The idea that Delta variant MOST LIKELY AROSE IN ANIMAL is one of pure fantasy. It has no science or factual information to support it beyond spamming made in a lab all day long.

All all else is strawman, hand wave and obvious to every one ad hominems about People's Daily, when it obvious to anyone with even an atom of integrity that my arguments have nothing to do with said publications headlines (not even printed in the UK).

Development time is 10x or more faster with next gen mRNA because the "genetic sequence" is computerised, or in silico, as opposed to painstakingly constructed manually from original specimens claimed to be an original virus (the mish mash of claimed gene fragments is the pseudo-genome they are claiming). The blueprint is then "uploaded" to create new 'vaccines', and as new "variants" - variations of the computer model - appear, new vaccines can quickly and easily be developed.

So development time does not necessarily seem to be a safety issue. Check the VAERS or yellow card databases, or national equivalent, to check safety.

Your post is nonsensical.

Development time includes trials or testing in human volunteers. That is the time consuming part. The longer the better. You seem to be advocating for skipping the trials part and using the general population as the "guinea pigs".

I don't want to get in the middle of this lovers' quarrel but isn't the spike protein sort of the identifying characteristic of all coronaviruses? I thought that's what gave all of them their tell-tale shape, and SARS-CoV- 2 was just the latest collection of specific amino acid combinations on the spike protein.

Maybe that's what you meant to say but when you say "that spike protein was paid for by..." it makes it sound as if you're claiming the entire spike protein feature is there by design.

Care to clarify your position? Thx.

I want to stay out of the way of this dispute too but am very curious to read up on some material on the above point. Can you please cite for me what you have as i have only really seen the human to human variants being shown to be the threat thus far and you are pretty clearly indicating that is not the case.

Shuffle is denying that the variants are human to human. Or at least that we know they are.

I misrepresented his argument apparently.

I thought the said the delta variant was definitely most likely from an animal, where as what he actually said is we dont know where it came from but it probably most likely came from an animal.

However when I say the disease probably started in an animal, according to him, that is me denying any possibility of it being lab created.

Because all shuffle does is strawman as hard as he can.

LOL.

Just read the thread, he is being classic only in this thread possible massive arse clown.

The claim it "effortlessly" passes is so open ended as to be meaningless.

Maybe check some of his posting in the OOT thread where he authoritatively states that all the initial claims by vaccines producers of being effective are falsehoods.

BFI Corona thread gonna BFI corona thread.

If corona can "effortlessly" cross species we are very lucky its only dangerous to humans as there are no signs of the huge losses we would be seeing in herd stock and pets, or even serious illness, or even illness.

We have seen some very sporadic illness in animals, because the virus can cross species.

We have seen one significant outbreak in animal kept for exploitation.

The variants created in that outbreak became extent in humans precisely because they were specialised to be competitive in a non human mammal e.g. Mink.

can =! effortlessly.

Again its the work of a pure an absolute fantasist, take something that has a possibility of happening then exaggerate that possibility to its greatest extent to suit the narrative of subjective fantasy/delusion.

Shuffle does this in basically every topic he discusses.