That’s when the real fun starts:
1. Prosecuting and imprisoning the traitor Trump
2. Prosecuting all of his many minions/quislings and taking all their wealth to redistribute
3. Continuing to deplatform hate groups; the denazification of our time

Really glad to see Mitch, the FBI, and big tech are all on board!

Do you actually think things will change? lol some of you are so delusional

Explain to me what any leader could have done differently that would have a a better outcome? The US is in the middle of Western nations for death rate, despite far higher preexisting conditions and staying a lot more open/having a less disastrous economy (the states have most power over that both practical and legal and Biden agrees with not locking down).



So what should he have done differently, and where would the death rate be if he had?

All those racists!
Hmm, let's check the data:



6 of the top 10 and all of the top 5 are heavy Democrat states. Still, we can't blame the Democrat leaders of Democrats states for their far higher death toll than Republican states! After all, they're the good guys! So let's let look at their record in previous potential pandemics:

1. H1N1:
Alright, let's just ignore that, anyone can screw it up, right? What about Zika?

Lessons unlearned: Four years before the CDC fumbled coronavirus testing, the agency made some of the same mistakes with Zika

Hmm, nope, same level ****up as they did with COVID.

Warp speed was great but I don't know enough of the internals to know how much Trump gets credit. It's all fairly obvious. What was fantastic though was pushing to keep the economy open. He also bought time early by banning Chinese flights. The US has he same death rate as other Western nations and a FAR better economy and personal freedoms through this pandemic. They've kicked the **** out of Europe.

I love the level of delusion that you think anything will change. You have zero understanding of what caused this and why. You have no knowledge of even recent history, no idea how the bureaucracy works, no perspective, no intelligence. Just a balls-out loser going on loser rant. You're a useful fool for the people whose fault this pandemic actually is.

Simplistic implies that my short description of the mechanisms misses some critical detail(s) to the point of being misleading. If there's something you want to correct in the way I've explained it, go ahead.

Any guess I would give about the odds of consequences is going to factor in my own epistemology about the universe, in addition to being a low-confidence guess about an area of science that I'm not an expert in. So it doesn't seem particularly worthwhile for me to answer. But since I'm not a chicken-**** weasel like most of the posters in this thread, I'd guess the odds are 100:1 and 80:1. Note that I'm not saying that one in 101 people would have serious long-term health consequences, rather that one in 101 times that we run this universe simulation over again, there will be widespread long-term health consequences for those receiving the vaccine.

Thanks for the answer. Simplistic means that reality is complicated, man, and we don't know what we don't know until the experiment has been run in human bodies for many years. There's no way we're capturing all the complexities of this technology and your post shows a confidence that you know what it's doing.

I put the odds of moderate, long term health complications from mRNA (like autoimmune conditions) for a good portion of the vaccinated between 1 and 5%. Probably tending to the lower end of that range. So we're not far off. I'd probably put the odds of severe health problems lower than yours.

Thanks for the response

juan valdez,

thanks for compiling all that. The sad part is my quotes were reasonable compared to the arguments/ positions I was responding too

You can't have an actual discussion with sycophants like TS et al. Instead sarcastically pointing out the sillyness is enjoyable and efficient. OAFK and Cupee are saints for trying to engage with the smooth brains. I would rather just point and laugh.

What happened to max? did the leftwing facists get to him.

I'm asking this non argumentatively but where do you get these numbers, or the feel for these numbers? Looking at the mechanism I would be guesstimating orders of magnitude lower than yours. If it did end up being 1-5% then it may be one of the biggest ever man made disasters. The sheer fallout from the lack of trust in science/medicine would likely take generations to heal.

Odds that anyone initiating the term "smooth brain" is a freak and a very weird dude?

ponty, I mean those odds in the same way somigosaden does:
Is this a joke? Medicine and science is a disaster full of proven quackery and frequent mistakes despite consensus claims of safety and efficacy. Consensus science/health bodies promoting saturated fats over trans fats have killed millions of people already, and made the diets of hundreds of millions less pleasant for no good reason at all. Every year, thousands of men are butchered and poisoned for no reason at all by prostate surgery they don't need, all for billions in cynical profits. Doctors prescribe opioids and antibiotics at a rate far beyond medical need, with more life years lost each year than corona as a result, and dangerous new strains of bacteria created from their incompetence. Preventable medical mistakes kill around 250,000 per year.
That's corona every year. Entire fields of medicine are purely expensive and net harmful quackery, including most of the field of oncology, with a few very notable exceptions.

So no, it's not true that "the sheer fallout from the lack of trust in science/medicine would likely take generations to heal" - a tail outcome of that magnitude would in fact be par for the course for the medical establishment.

As for my percentages, it's simply an estimate from the rate of things that doctors and scientists have been sure are safe and turned out to be a disaster. From things which passed multi year trials and ended up toxic. It's always what you don't know that gets you, and imo there's easily a 1-5% tail here from what we don't know.

I really don't see why it would harm trust either. Everyone knows this was rushed out and it was reasonable to do so. 5% tail of moderately bad health effects like autoimmune conditions is a worthwhile price for a vaccine given the damage this is doing to lives and economies.

Well, I mean, assuming the billions of doses that Moderna and Pfizer are producing I would say that 1-5% is a colossal issue but I don't really want to get bogged down in something so subjective.

That being said I do disagree with some of your takes about medicine/science. A lot of those examples are basically people either misapplying the science or outright ignoring it for profit. That has more to do with human nature than it does with science or medicine being quackery. In fact quackery literally can not be scientific long term but I digress. Anyway, you answered my question so will leave it at that.

An excellent article about lockdown vs sense:

Florida puts New York to shame in rational pandemic policies

With Cuomo basically admitting he was wrong not long ago, it's an interesting comparison. Democrat/loser panic vs rational policies.

Rational mind = pretending Covid doesn’t exist + vaccines cause autism

Conservative mindset.

Haha,

I am here, happy to debate and clown you guys despite threats of being banned by the mods. And in your view I am the one who wants a safe space.

You guys won't post and cry and about 'mods being unfair to you (victims boo hoo) in other forums, and only mainly post here while consistently screaming for mods to ban any poster who disagrees, long before I ever I entered this thread, and you think you are not the 'safe space' mob.

Too funny. Up is down. Left is right.

This certainly can be a significant factor and it is an error to make this statement ...

"...Nor can weather account for the difference. Yes, Floridians are often outdoors thanks to the Sunshine State’s balmy climes. But that doesn’t explain why the virus is raging out of control in tightly locked-down California..."

Floridians also live far more apart from each other. Compared to NYC, Miami barely counts as a city.

Population density is counterintuitively almost irrelevant for covid spread. It makes sense though if you understand the mechanics: covid is nearly entirely spread by extended close contact with people you know and extended face to face speaking. Strangers on the street/shop/public transport just aren't a major component of spread. For example, extensive contact tracing data shows that restaurants are 1.4% of spread

The science denying, life destroying Democrat governors don't understand that though. Although Cuomo seems to be catching on far too late.

Rational mind = acting in proportion to the threat and acting intelligently around the threat and having a far better life/economy for the same or lower death rate. This is settled science at this point given global and state-level data. The SAGE group even predicted this exact outcome.

And just as the first strain came first to Cali and NYC, it is entirely possible they will find the new, far more virulent strain also came to Cali first and is having a major impact and thus for those who understand the nature of exponential spread, it could make perfect sense why Cali might be suffering as much again, this time compared to Florida.

We just do not know enough to jump to the conclusion that article does and anyone who is not looking for confirmation bias would have picked that out.

"It's entirely possible" with zero evidence of same and strong evidence against (they do surveillance tests for the new strain, it's a small fraction of all strains and not relevant yet in the US from the data I can see. We're many weeks into surveillance testing for the UK strain and it's coming in at the dozens/week vs millions per week infected with the old. It could easily be in the thousands but it's not a relevant fact yet for state comparisons. Not even in the ballpark of close. You would know that if you weren't clutching at straws to keep your wrong narrative alive.

Anyone who is not looking for confirmation bias wouldn't be making up hypotheticals not backed by reality as absurd as you just did just so you can keep clinging to your anti-science notions.

fyp

You realize that all of the INDEPENDENT THINKERS are the anti-vaxxers right?

That’s you, homey!

Pretending the virus doesn’t exist led to

1. People living the same way as before (even more defiantly in some cases)
2. The virus spreading
3. People dying and life being changed significantly for months longer than needed

Thanks GOP!

It does not matter how much you THINK it is more likely,


This stated as a definitive statement is not yet substantiated as fact even if you really, REALLY want it to be.


"...Nor can weather account for the difference. Yes, Floridians are often outdoors thanks to the Sunshine State’s balmy climes. But that doesn’t explain why the virus is raging out of control in tightly locked-down California..."

The article's attempt to jump to a conclusion is where it goes wrong.

Yep, that's the intuitive position. Thanks for giving us the idiot take. But unfortunately it doesn't capture reality. The data doesn't support this notion when comparing death rates in Western nations OR across Democrat vs Republican states or counties. The ones taking it more seriously/being more restricted are not doing better on deaths while having far worse lives and economies. And it's not close.

People who aren't losers adjust their intuitions when the data convincingly refutes their intuitions. Then there's you.

Before the pandemic there was decent science behind the "let it burn through in a controlled way" being similar death in the long run. Now there's a large amount of hard data supporting that too.

I'm very pro vaccination. Once again, being an idiot, you conflate all manner of things. And are incapable of being meaningfully substantive on any point. Any point where you even tangentially touch on being substantive you're comically wrong according to the data. Just a straight up loser.

Ironically, the only thing you're doing is getting people to agree with me, as I get to post data supporting my position while everyone can clearly see your side is full of emotional, fact-free morons whose opinions come from nothing but obtuse thoughtless intuitions.

Australia has followed expert advice at every turn. You cannot explain their success without sacrificing your argument.