Howard,
We don't know the side effect profile from mRNA vaccines. They have never been used before, and they're very different to past vaccines which are essentially a natural challenge.

mRNA has a really troubling history. For example,

Vaccines are a little different, but you're still hacking into something with unknown side effects, and the usual approval process will be fast tracked because of global need.

I agree with you that over 50 or so it makes sense to take the vaccine, because covid is a nasty disease as you get older.

You can still have a nasty fever from Covid even if you don't get pneumonia.

I had the H1N1 flu. The fever lasted 10 days and for a few days I had a 102, close to 103 fever. It was hell on earth and not something I will ever forget. A lot of the Covid victims describe their fever experiences the exact same way, many of them with pneumonia added to it.

So yeah I'll take the vaccine.

I'd agree about people who fight to get to a different country being braver. I'm not sure that contracdicts the point i made in anyway

Bear in mind that I'm old enough to have known most many of the 'great grandparant' generation (and the one before that and even ...) Pushing it a bit, not pushing it enough sadly but l'm old enough to be a grandparant.

I dont think this is the correct place for an attack on those experts. I'll directly take my share of the personal repsonsibility for the ethics of volunteer trials. You can add it to my death toll and bill.

I hope it's not you at the pearly gates.

TS,

Fair. My understanding from the Moderna phase 1 and 2 studies is that they didn't turn up significant side effects. There may of course be long-term effects if we aren't aware.

On balance, I'd probably decide to take Pfizer before Moderna but my gut reaction is that I'd be willing to take either.

The last time I had a fever that high, I hallucinated that I was a sphere in a continuous 24-hour thought loop. I was in a crappy hotel on a work trip when I came down with influenza and it was among the worst 72 hours of my adult life. The only period I'm sure was worse
was immediately after my father died in a plane crash. So, yeah, vaccine.

Haha.

That is one of your fastest concessions on admitting how stupid something you wrote was and your attempt to backpedal from it.

But please go ahead and caveat, sidestep and duck now, and provide more entertain as you try to explain how the below statement by you is not an ignorant simplification of the challenges of dealing with severe addiction with you missing that you have to FIRST deal with the underlying addiction issues before you will get people to stop injecting and using dirty needles.

"...the only thing people had to do to stop it was not inject drugs with dirty needles..."

Once again you show a lack of ability to analyse anything beyond the symptom and actually see what needs to be addressed and thus you rant like an ignoramous.

Moderna is in phase III trials in the UK. If it get's approved I can't think of any reason why I wouldn't take it. Same with the others.

Only reason I wouldn't take a vaccine is if the government are pushing it against the expert advice.

Also worth mentioning that when the government is in opposition to programs like clean needle exchanges then epidemics like HIV become much worse. Similar to how when the government opposes measures that help prevent the spread of covid it makes the pandemic much worse.

How does it feel waking up every day with a rage boner for tooth

Is anyone following the reasons as to why there isn't a massive supply of N95 masks by now? It seems like the first thing we identified is there is a shortage and any supply should be directed to the health care workers first. Their importance was identified immediately and it seems like there has been plenty of time to ramp up production to the point where we not only have supply for now, but perhaps getting ahead of things and start to build a stock pile. How hard is it to ramp mask production? Obviously I'm missing something

This poster participates in the politics section. There are a handful of posters there who exhibit coopee's all around habits. Start or end posts with "HAHAHAAHAHA' or "LLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLL" etc. Among those posters you will notice a pattern where they regularly have an ungodly post count. Like 50k+. They go on these long winded rants that are mostly detached from reality. The person they are responding to or arguing with has their actual position ignored in favor of the imagination of a the spazzes preferred strawman. Some or all of them are also on some pharmaceutical meth among other things to help them cope with their condition(s).

It would be best for everyone if people here used self control and restraint in ignoring them vs trying to "own" or "dunk" on them. I don't mean ignore everyone you disagree with, but try to restrain yourselves from attacking every meth rant you see. I know it's low hanging fruit but it just makes the thread better. I enjoy seeing people defend their positions which is what makes this thread useful, but a little effort to tidy it up would go a long way

Also I just want to add that Sklansky's idea of wearing 2 masks is not nearly as good as wearing 3 masks. Do the math

0%? lol wut. I would agree that the probability of you experiencing symptoms from the vaccine is higher than 0%, but the probability of you dying/serious illness is not 0% sir.

I'm fairly sure that covid hospitalization and death rates for your age and health are, while low, much higher than rates coming from vaccines.

Because of people like Phoebe Rhea Berman, widow of a very wealthy doctor, who donates all her money to found the Berman Bioethics Institute of John Hopkins and probably gave them some very stringent guidelines on what they can and cannot say about bioethics in condition for getting her money.

Then, the Berman Institute releases opinions like this about challenge trials from many MDs and PhDs:

https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2.../27/2021189117

claiming how losing even one life in a human challenge trial is "unconscionable", even if that research later saves millions (I think this quote is from a source they quote in their paper)

So yeh, if you have boat loads of cash, you get to decide what is right and wrong in society.

No surprise someone with your critical thinking skills is religious.

The only hilarious part is the confidence in your stupidity.

full over reaction mode = USA basically doing nothing but watching bodies pile up

Any thoughts on FFP2 masks? These are 5 or 6 ply heavier duty masks which cost about £2-£4 each in the uk. Germany are giving a batch to all vulnerable people.

(maybe a better version of DS's two mask plan)


Are these the same thing? In which case they do seem to be widely available in the UK now and so it looks like production was massively ramped up.

No surprise someone with your (lack of) critical thinking skills and a functioning moral compass is a bigot.

3 million bodies pile up a year in the US while people like you do "nothing but watch". Hundreds of thousands of completely preventable ones: 50K from flu, 40K from car accident (with hundreds of thousands of serious injuries), 100K from drinking, 50K from opioids (in 2019) and so on.

Most of those are preventable with FAR less intrusion, cost, and economic damage than what we're doing for corona, but low IQ moralists like yourself don't say a damn word.

What is it about covid that has you clutching your pearls? Most of the deaths I mentioned above are far more destructive/tragic than the olds being taken out 0-3 years earlier than otherwise. I'd say at least 5x more life years lost and maybe 20x more quality adjusted life years lost in the non-covid preventable death group.

Sick made up up data bro. Anymore random numbers you want to make up?

I think your Team Trump posts in this thread have made people at least 2.3x dumber. Possibly 2.4x

lol bringing up car accidents and alcoholism. What about abortions dude? Won't someone think of the poor and innocent fetuses

See now you're just embarrassing yourself more than already have. Anyone who's not a low IQ loser like yourself can quickly see that I'm correct.

First, some data:

Corona average of death (in the UK, US is similar but I can't find already-calculated numbers): 82.4
Life years lost to corona on average: Far less than 3. But let's say it's 3.

Total life years lost to corona = ~230K deaths * <3 years lost = 690K life years lost.

For preventable opioid addiction, average age at death is 42.1 years. At 50K deaths in 2019, that's 40 years left * 50K lives = 2 million life years lost. Thus fully preventable opioid deaths are by themselves 3x the lives lost from corona. And they're less than 1/4 of preventable deaths.

I actually substantially lowballed my multipliers to make it uncontroversial, but I didn't count on someone with your incredible stupidity still getting it wrong. This is basic cost/benefit analysis and RikaKazak has the right of it and you're clearly on the wrong side of it (in fact, have no clue what you're talking about).

Thank you for exposing what a dickhead you are, that you couldn't do this math in your head in 2 seconds and not make your idiotic, worthless post.
It's delicious when an uneducated loser like you is so clueless and math illiterate they argue against something that's obviously and uncontroversially correct.

Lol the confidence in your terrible positions is amazing. Any more data you'd like to make up or misrepresent? Done engaging with you as its rather obvious you're not intellectually honest or even attempting to be.


Trump fans are known to be highly educated with super high IQs. Its delicious.

I'm not a fan of Trump either but leave him out of the argument. He has nothing to do with whether lockdowns or social distancing should exist.

So instead of stating why his calculations or data are bad, you are going to insult him for supporting a specific political candidate and claim that he is misrepresenting data without stating how this is the case. Thats ridiculous. If you play poker in the future, are you going to assume that if someone supports Trump they're going to be bad at poker too? May learn a harsh lesson there..

Maybe GlassGlazier will understand it better in picture form.

Opioid deaths: 50K deaths in 2019, around 2 million life years lost per year, completely preventable, it wipes out the young at their prime:



With devastating ripple effects for families. Very little money or public consciousness is spent on it. In fact the life years lost from preventable opioid deaths are so great that the US is now moving down in life expectancy the last few years from the effect of this. In contrast:

Corona deaths: 250K deaths, around 700K life years lost per year:



You can see it overwhelmingly wipes out people who have no life years left.

So: For 700K life years lost in a year, around $3 trillion has been spent/lost in the US, and vast amounts of public consciousness and suboptimal living locked down, not going to school, stressed out, etc.

People advocate this tradeoff as worthwhile. Yet for 2 million life years lost in a year, around $3 billion has been spent, or less than 1/1000th of what was spent/wasted on corona, and very little public consciousness.

Something is really ****ed up there in how society is doing its cost/benefit analysis, don't you think? There are at least 5x more life years and at least 20x more quality adjusted life years in preventable deaths that could be saved for a tiny fraction of the money and intrusiveness lost on corona.

Yeh Sweden was never close to herd immunity (17.5k cases per million, where as North Dakota is 5 times that at 85k cases per million), but their hospitals were also never in serious trouble. Doesn't mean they did anything wrong and it doesnt mean they should suddenly shut down now.

Also I mean LOL comparing it to Finland one of the few that hasn't been hit hard, what about all the other European countries where cases are exploding? Like geographic proximity means something when people can travel by boat and airplane..