Aggo, bank confidence is MEANINGLESS. Bank accounts are insured and guaranteed by the government up to $250k. You posted a 100% irrelevant graph. If a bank goes out of business you still don't lose any money. What's the confidence rate of an american on the dollars they hold? Does any actual person believe there is a realistic chance of the USD being worthless and meaningless tomorrow, and that the government will end (lets eliminate the 0.0000001% rate of being nuked into oblivion or the government defaulting on every debt it owes)? Stop posting that stupid graph.

Also stop telling people to show their work, major services having their accounts hacked have been posted about time and time again this thread. It's common ****ing knowledge. Me doing all the work for you wastes our time since you seem to selectively choose which posts to read and not read. If you don't believe me I don't give a flying **** because the evidence exists, be it on google or in this very thread.

Man some of you ******s annoy me.

rainetech believes money grows on trees, so,


and when the government bails out the banksters, nothing happened to your money because

LOLOLOL YOU ARE INSURED BY THE GOVERNMENT


utter buffoonery.



Trust JP Morgan! So when JP Morgan takes a 12billion bailout they are trustworthy. When JP Morgan dicks over MF Global clients, they are trustworthy. When Jamie Dimon has to testify before congress in any capacity, they are trustworthy

thus,

bankcoins would be deemed trustworth to consumers.

good thing evidence says otherwise.

As a scientist, there is a thing called facts.

You tend to post or show none of them.

The government has profited from the bank bailout fyi. Also your continuous reference to banks as "banksters" shows me you truly know absolutely nothing about banking. Crimes are committed at many/all major companies. That doesn't make the CEO or the company as a whole to blame. I'm almost positive you use either an iphone or samsung phone, go and look at their many many legal troubles. Do you call them "techsters." I think the fact that you are uneducated on this topic leads me to believe speaking to you about anything of intellectual substance will lead no where. You're stuck in a delusional world with denial of the real truth. Your evidence is no response to how the FDIC works, but please do keep using it as a reason to show us why your money isn't safe in a bank.

I will no longer be responding to your posts. My attempt to educate you will never overcome your ignorance and idiocy.

I have worked in banking for more than 10 years and this makes me laugh. Sure banks are innovative when it comes to their core business but they are also slow and bureaucratic which puts them completely out of the running for being among the most innovative companies in the world.

What role of banking are you in? Innovation means more than developing new products or improving efficiency... Banks have increasingly gotten better and better at creating new ideas to assist companies become more efficient and profitable themselves. If you work middle office/back office or in retail banking then sure you probably don't see much, but then again your role in banking is insignificant and meaningless to begin with.

So what major innovations have banks come up with that put them in the running with the top innovative companies in the world. Let's say a Google type of innovation. And of course my role is insignificant but I do get to see every new product/service the bank offers to their clients. Unless you know of any services banks do these days that don't require software changes.

http://www.forbes.com/innovative-companies/list/

As stated before, a banks innovation and creativity is not like other companies, hence you won't find them on a list like that. Banks increase profits by increasing its customer base and the revenue generated from their customers. How do they do this? Innovation. They create ideas for customers to either save or earn more money, and they are doing so at a constantly increasing rate. When a front office team can better service a company by generating a new financial structure than their old way of thinking, that is innovation. When banks get better and better at pricing out IPOs, it's due to innovation. When BOAML prints out an analyst report on bitcoin, accepting its investment potential and assessing its future, that's innovation.

Sure most of what a bank does is boring, and based on the fact that you alluded to having a meaningless function that isn't part of this, (kind of like an apple store employee) but it doesn't mean they don't come up with new and interesting ideas when it comes to client facing roles.

In an article posted on seekingalpha about bank of america,
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1889...ticle_readmore

some major points were brought up such as:

In the past year banking center transactions have declined 11%;
ATM, online and mobile transactions have grown 5% over the same period;
More than $750 million invested “over the last few years” to mobile and online platforms;
14 million active mobile customers, up from 11 last year — 7,000 new users a day;
$11.5 billion in revenue transactions a month, 60% higher year-over-year; and
8% of all Bank of America checks, or a total of 13 million checks, deposited by remote deposit capture (RDC).

The fact of the matter is banks are highly innovative, people just don't take notice because the innovation is almost exclusively seen within. Additionally, the innovations aren't "wowing" like when Sony launches a PS4 or something. 10-20 years ago high frequency trading didn't even exist, and now makes up over half of all trades done, as an example.

i'm also interested in this as i am ignorant when it comes to innovation in the banking industry.

i'm having trouble grasping this. could you provide a couple more concrete examples of bank innovation? specific examples would be appreciated, as opposed to "it's due to innovation" - yes, but what was the innovation? thank you RaineTech for staying sober and levelheaded throughout this discussion, and for the informative posts. keep up the good work. cheers!

You quoted 1/3 of my post. Congrats.

ya because i mostly agree with the rest, just wondering about the quoted part, to me increasing X or decreasing Y per year is an effect of innovation, not an example of. cheers!

Switching everyone over from paper checks to direct deposit, eliminating the need to ever receive a bill or pay a bill by mail (if you choose, most people still receive physical bills and pay online but both options are available). Also, I can send ACH payments to any of my friends free of charge and they have the money for free (and without any charges) in their account within a couple business days, we use this method in my fantasy leaguesand it works flawlessly and at a level of convenience I doubt bitcoin will ever reach.

Also banks continue to invest billions of dollars per year towards improving technologies, there are a lot of big things on the horizon, especially with mobile payments and mobile banking.

Also, LOL at that graph posting distrust in the banking system. First it is only measuring "great deal/quite a lot of trust" which is already going to biased as there are still going to be people that trust the system just not at the level the question is asking, especially at the height of the financial crisis, and you can see it is already going back up towards normal levels. If it asked something more basic, such as "do you have a basic trust in the banking system of the United States" that answer would be much closer to 100%.

Can anyone speak to the non-monetary uses for bitcoins? I was watching this video and if half the stuff this guy talks about is true it totally revolutionizes everything.



He basically says that bitcoins are more than just coins, the protocol is a P2P information verification system which could be used for stuff like copyright, ownership claims, legal conflict resolution.

He used to be a successful tech entrepreneur so I would imagine he knows what he's talking about but he talks about bitcoins in ways no one else does so he could be full of ****. Any thought? Paging TomCollins.

I don't understand why many in this thread advocate putting coins into cold storage for people who are just looking to get started in bitcoins, or for those who only hold a small amount. I can understand companies and/or exchanges doing this for extra security but not individuals except for the few that have a really significant amount.

To me this just means, throw some money at bitcoin, but not being able to recommend actually using them on anything because there is not much to use them for, so just throw them in cold storage and hope the price goes up. It's the equivalent of burying gold in your backyard, and hoping you remember how to find it someday.

If bitcoin is going to succeed cold storage should never be a recommendation to someone who is new to bitcoin asking what they should do with them. All that does is drive the scarcity which is the main thing going for it right now (the fear of being left behind), but that won't build a sustainable future or do anything to actually promote usage of the technology.

time after time you just completely missed the entire target.

I already agreed banks innovate. Every industry innovates or they stop increasing profits and die. You said top innovators in the world and that made me laugh. Every other industry is present in that list. Banking is not in there because their innovations are not among the top in the world. Show something that changed banking like VMWare changed computing. Or take any other of the 100 companies as your benchmark. With your standard every company is among the top innovative companies in the world as long as they increase revenue.

All individuals are insignificant in a company. That is what I alluded to. But keep comparing me to some sort of teller as if that makes your argument stronger. I am part of the change management team. Not much happens in the bank without our approval or knowledge.

So these are the bank innovations that you think place them among the top of the world. Online banking, Scanning of checks and HFT.

Online banking lags way behind other online enterprises and is more based on using other peoples innovations than creating their own. Most of that work is outsourced to companies that are in that top 100 list. RDC is interesting but not exactly an innovation that is world class. The ATM was but that was a long time ago.

I will give you HFT. That is a true banking innovation. I have friends working at Optiver and they are doing truly innovative stuff. But that still doesn't put banking as a sector anywhere close to the top innovators in the world.

That's not a fair comparison, you can really only judge innovation within a specific industry, as every industry is specialized in something.

What is the last major vaccine Google invented? No, I wouldn't expect google to do a pharmaceutical company's job either, nor would I expect a pharmaceutical company to come out with the next great search engine or smart-phone, etc...

Just because BTC has a market cap of $12 bil doesn't mean people won't take a bank coin. BTC is their only option right now. And right now It's not being used by everyday people. I'd say on a scale of 0-100 with 0 being computer idiots in the world and 100 being the gurus, I would probably rank 98+. I honestly don't really know anything special, but the majority of the rest of the world knows a lot less. And If I am scared storing my BTC because I'm afraid I'm going to **** something up, how are the general public idiots going to feel storing BTC?

They'll take the bank coin all day.

There will still be a market for BTC, just the underground stuff and guys looking to keep stuff under the radar. And the speculators.

Your link is bad, but I saw the URL and it was Molyneaux's video. I didn't watch all of it yet, but I am very familiar with what he is saying.

This absolutely is possible. There are things like this being built. I started toying with some of these implementations as well. He oversimplifies it a bit and glosses over some of the difficulties and also tends to exaggerate in terms of how much will be replaced with it, but the general part is right and certainly this has big implications.

Hell, look at namecoin. It's basically a special version of Bitcoin that is designed for P2P DNS. I think we'll see a lot more of this, either in clones of Bitcoin with specific purposes or with layers on top of Bitcoin, but it absolutely has a ton more uses than what most people think of.

I expect a top innovative company in the world to be able to name their top innovation. So Google invented Google innovating search engines. Amazon innovated online shopping. Regeneron made some really innovative medical stuff. I am still waiting to hear what the top innovation is that makes any bank belong among that list. It sure as hell isn't online banking because those platforms are hardly ever created by the banks themselves. And the first ones were a disaster. Most still are. And before RaineTech calls me a teller again and thinks I don't know what I am talking about. I was involved with the rollout of 3 different online/mobile platforms with 3 different banks.

What is the last major innovation Exxon Mobil has brought you? They still pump a lot of money into R&D, but when it comes down to it, everyone still needs to fill their tank with gas pretty much the same way. I agree with what you are saying, I just don't think it is that cut and dry. At the same time, there are companies like Tesla trying to revolutionize the automobile industry, the technology is still a work in progress though and just now becoming viable. Companies like Exxon Mobil would be interested in this technology too as if they invent it there would be huge profits for themselves and they could destroy all their major competitors, so while there can be some resistance to change it is not all conspiracy theory either.

i misspoke. I was referencing JP Morgan's bailout total, by which through some more research is about 90 billion. (tarp + amlf)

i had forgotten that the bailout was not a singular infusion of cash into these banks but multiple.

Keep being more clueless. People (mostly) are not buying Bitcoin because of the present but the future. They aren't buying it to use it (yet!). They are buying for the long term. You act like this is some kind of problem.

You are also dead wrong that it does nothing to actually promote usage or building it. Early adopters, who want this to succeed, now are fairly wealthy and are actually able to fund projects that will implement the visions they have. There are Angel groups and VC capital available that just wasn't there before, and this is only possible because the price has gone up a ton.

You seem to be too old to have any concept of vision for the future, stuck only in the present or in the past. Those who have not lost that are and have been crushing dinosaurs like you. Go turn into oil.

XOM is able to extract from far deeper and harder places than ever before. Probably still more innovative than anything the banking industry has done. The big claim of innovation for banks was that it now could transfer funds in SEVERAL DAYS! They don't need to innovate, they can create money out of thin air.

That's not clueless it is a completely valid point, and disregarding cannot be more clueless. I know you are already drunk on the kool-aid so was already expecting that type of reply.

When new people come to this thread and ask, what can they do with a bitcoin, and no one can give them a valid answer other than save it and hope it keeps going up, that is not much of an argument for the technology being useful. Maybe it will get there someday, only time will tell.

For example, when email was invented, it was easy to see how it could improve communication immediately (no more buying stamps, no more waiting a few days for your letter to be sent then replied to), it was just a matter of investing to build the infrastructure to make it happen.

So far, there is nothing that bitcoin can do that I cannot already do better with the current banking infrastructure, other than illegal activities, and there is not a clear cut case on how it is going to revolutionize anything.