Good idea. Keeping cucking your fiat overlords.

Fiat currencies and the nations who issue them are deeply flawed. But at least they're backed by something more than just a random SHA result.

Lol sorry, what are they backed by? Old white guys in a room?

When was the last time you've seen or heard someone normal use the word fiat when talking about money?

The collective wealth and resources of a nation, the taxing authority against those resources, and its military.

It always amused me how gold bugs would speak about gold serving as wealth protection during apocalyptic financial or societal upheavals, as if the world would become a place where they would walk around exchanging gold coins and bars for goods and services. It's the same mentality Bitcoin advocates have. It's one-dimensional thinking.

Is your view that the collective wealth, resources, taxing authority and military might of the USA has nearly 2x since January 2020?

Is it your view that the collective wealth, resources, taxing authority and military might of Bitcoin has gone up from zero since 2009?

Why do we keep comparing bitcoin to fiat currency when 99% of bitcoiners don't use bitcoin as a currency for goods and services.


Bitcoin failed as a currency.

Yup it's all over. 13 years in it has failed and no more development is being done on it. May as well close the thread.

Why does this matter?

When the Reichsmark failed, Germany came up with a new fiat currency called the Deutsche Mark and everyone in Germany adopted it out of pure necessity. They didn't care what it was "backed" by.

Out of all the goods and services you bought in 2022, how much of it was bought with bitcoin. What % of your house hold purchase needs was done with bitcoin transfers.

Or did you convert bitcoin to dollars and then bought things with it.

Yup and all of this is support by unpayable debt up to around 300% debt to gdp worldwide .

U live un lalaland with Monopoly money and u don’t even know it …..

The fiat money distribution is so dislocated we already running close to 2 earth of consumption per year which is unsustainable…..
Just to show how your « value » is not real .

This is such a tiresome argument. Why do people own stocks? I'm curious what % of their household purchases were done with stock transfers.

Isn’t that exactly The proof u need to show fiat isn’t a good system by his many failures ?
Yes maybe German didn’t care by what it was backed by but I’m not sure foreign commerce didn’t care tho .


Btw :


https://globalfinancialdata.com/the-...-two-germanies

« One question I often receive about the data for the Germany is why the German stock and bond indices had a 90% decline in June 1948. At first, people think there is an error in the data, but German shareholders actually did lose 90% of their capital as a result of the Currency Reform of June 20, 1948 when Reichsmark were converted into Deutschemark ».

I don’t call this a success .

So it's a store of value now?
if that's the case, it has done horribly for some time now.

I guess like all other investment it depends at what price u bought it ?
Fwiw it isn’t houses , chicken , oil , gold , etc. that goes up or down in value , it’s the fiat currency value that is moving …
U had the greatest and fastest raise ever of interest rates , what u expect for everything else ?

Ps: I’m not even an advocate of bitcoin .
But I think it as merits .

Wait, why did a fiat currency, backed by the wealth of a nation and military fail? Must be an anomaly.

Debt that can't be paid won't be paid. Governments will either default on it or inflate it away. This isn't a secret. The fact you think this is a secret to anyone indicates you overestimate your knowledge vs the average investor.

It's humorous that cryptocurrency advocates would call any other currency system "Lala land". Fiat is decried because governments can create new money out of thin air - the crypto solution was to beat them to it and create their own money out of thin air. It's downright comical.

Not an anomaly. Almost all fiat currencies eventually fail, or effectively fail as they devalue closer and closer to zero.

First part I lol hard .
It has nothing to do about my argument u try to respond ….
U think ure answer proves fiat currency system is ok because in the end they end up facked ?
No idea why u bring paying down those debt when I just said the value of fiat currency is distorted to crazy level being impacted in every aspect of life .
Thats lalaland.

Fwiw Im not an crypto advocate but I don’t have my head in the sand thinking I’m better protected in fiat currency if I leave my money under the bed .

What gives value to a currency or any medium of exchanges value , it’s the confidence in it , plain and simple .
Now confidence can be increase or decrease with different means .
I believe a medium of exchanges like bitcoin is when I receive payment from it ,
the money is there .
If I receive a paper check , I’m not sure the money will be there when I go exchange it at the bank .

That is how I see bitcoin .

Think about what you said again

Sounds like neither of us believe in fiat currency, at least as a reliable, long-term store of value.

Crypto (including BTC) is not the solution. There's no way to avoid losing one's entire investment in cyrpto - it can go to zero overnight. Fiat is much more likely to slowly go to zero. There are lots of ways to avoid losing to fiat's slow grind to zero. But it takes work.

People are lazy and don't want to work at it. They want a turnkey solution to currency debasement and inflation. One doesn't exist. Crypto certainly isn't it.

U disagree ?
Think harder ….

Agree .
But fwiw it isn’t the medium the problem , it’s the actors behind them with every medium having some advantages/disadvantages.

Bitcoin could hold value better on the long run by preventing manipulions and the lack off its elasticity but could be damaging for the economy or society during crisis.

Fiat is the opposite of course .
And fiat could prevent inflation (keep the interest rates at 10% + ) ,
but it’s impossible in democracies for obvious reasons .

Naturally it's not the medium but the participants controlling it. Fiat could theoretically be tied to the rate of economic growth and productivity so that its expansion matches asset creation and isn't inflationary. But the political and human factors make that theoretical case impossible. When you have a money machine the impulse to abuse it is too strong to resist.

Crypto swaps the slow debasement and inflation risk of fiat for the sudden cataclysmic risk of total loss. I approach risk analysis for crypto like any other investment. Too much has to go right for crypto to outperform other investment strategies. On a risk-adjusted basis those odds are even more stark.