I actually have TS on ignore but I am going to guess he’s saying to, ASAP, and a bunch of other posters (most likely myself too) for posting no content, basically because we call out his bullshit. I actually do agree some bulls are delusional but TS is just nuts.

His latest claim in TSLA thread should give anyone serious doubts about TS’ credibility. Just to save you some time, he claimed he could code a nearly fully working FSD system within a year.

At this point I can (and did just a few weeks ago, feel free to tell me if my responses were in point) respond to TS blind in the TSLA thread because I know he’s going from conclusion first and really has no interest in finding “milestones” (in management speak) or warning flags that would disprove his short/tsla is trash thesis.

A tip for would be traders: if you can’t identify a way to falsify your thesis, you are probably getting emotional.

Tooth just so you know I'm not proposing just me being exiled. You would be exiled too.

Doesn't Mason already want to ban you Tooth?

Don't take my omission to say Don't ban turtletom as meaning that I think you should. I am uninformed.

But I will say, please don't pursue a course of action that leads to TS being banned. He has grown on me and occasionally makes good points...

We're discussing this some.

For me personally, I'd probably clean house and just ban/exile everyone that can't engage in civil, intelligent discussion. I'm probably overly sensitive, but I just don't see any reason people can't be civil. We'll see what others want.

My real life is just too busy running my business and trying to carve out family time to invest much time here trying to figure out where the line of civil discourse is, but I'm still quite confident that calling people 'cucks' and posts that are nothing but trolling are a net negative to BFI.

This used to be the best forum on 2+2. It no longer is due to constant trolling and name calling. If it were me making the decision I would have flushed the toilet a long time ago. That said I don't post here much anymore because "why bother?"

Most of the value in these forums is having your ideas ripped apart:

1) Bad financial/life advice, totally missing the point

2) Dis-assembled and corrected from first principles


There is a vocal group in here that can't deal with their ideas (investments/politics) being challenged. I think it's pretty easy to sift out who is here to improve their ideas/understanding versus those with other motivations, whatever they may be. I don't have any moderation experience so this approach may be un-workable in practice, but is the guideline I'd like to see.

Inability to insure against most likely risks is not sufficient argument against insuring against insurable risks.

Honestly, this is pretty simple to me. It's a sliding scale of moderation:

1. Ban people of zero worth to this forum who are highly disruptive for the pure sake of trolling/having an agenda not related to good content in BFI. turtletom is an example of someone you ban after 100 zero content posts, not after 1000. Obvious and stated agenda, highly disruptive, no intelligent content. Gone.

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^I'm proposing the line here. It's a no brainer/basic moderation function.

2. Ban people of some worth to this forum who are highly disruptive because of an unhealthy personal agenda or stalk other users. ASAP17 fits here

3. Ban people of high worth to this forum (lots of good content appreciated by many others) who are sometimes uncivil, often when provoked.
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^You're proposing this line because of your dislike of incivility.

Yahoo stock forums is usually civil. It's also worthless trash. The Tesla thread is uncivil at times. It's also full of useful profit-making analysis and robust discussion you can't find anywhere else on the Internet. It's only a few trolls that are a problem. Like a poster said:
If you want to impose rules of civility after years of being "derelict for not banning turtle and asap and probably despacito for the garbage they've dumped in the Tesla thread", hey, it's your forum, but don't pretend these are equivalent bans. One is a no brainer that should have been done a long time ago as a basic moderation function, and the other is excising actual good content because the guy providing isn't always civil.

Unlike turtletom, I like this forum and contribute here and have for a long time, long before woke toxic trolls arrived from politics with agendas wanting to disrupt things. So I'll make you a deal in the interests of improving this forum - if you can make this forum more tolerable for everyone by taking out the highly disruptive people who are here purely for trolling (turtletom) or can't help stalking and off-topic naysaying/sarcing every second post (ASAP17 - and not just to me), I'll do my bit to improve the forums as well by sticking to collegial high quality content going forward. It's pretty much impossible to be collegial with these toxic motivated trolls running amok, and in the case of ASAP17 being sarcastic and nasty to far more people than me. It's a simple choice for me to act differently; unlike ASAP17 and turtletom being uncivil is secondary for me, it's an aside to discussing content. For them their personal agendas, being sarcastic and trolling, are the main reason they post.

I started this request because I value content in this forum and we need to stop having deliberately, nonstop disruptive posters mess up content threads, something which a lot of people want. It's a simple request and moderators should have done this a year ago, as other posters are telling you.

Did you really go through my posts to find something you felt like you could call me out on? I assume that's what you're doing here, lol. There's a reason that most multimillionaires carry insurance and that professional financial advisers and risk managers advise it.

You should seriously try harder, I'm sure I have something way dumber than that to find!


To your actual point - I've been here a LONG time. BFI used to be awesome and people challenged and learned from each other without the childish nonsense that goes on here now. It's turned into something that seems to mirror our political environment, devoid of rational civil discourse.

I can almost guarantee TS is now accusing people of trolling and saying they should be banned. Tesla stock fascinates me because it reminds me of Amazon (which was one of my hardest and earliest lessons in relying too much on fundamental metrics for valuation and trading) and because the company in many ways behave and is valued like a startup (albeit with a ridiculously high valuation.)

Now onto what I think of the situation in Tesla thread.

1. A lot of the posts designed to troll TS has more content than the TeslaQ crazy retweets/reposts that have dominated TS posting (judging by quotes of him.)
2. TS seems to have completely given up on incorporating contrary information and is actively seeking to confirm his bear thesis, making most of his posts (judging by quotes) in that thread painfully predictable and devoid of any content to push discussion forward. It’s accounting fraud, demand collapse, scam, selling cars at a loss, and so on ad nauseam.
3. He has called a lot of posters various names. I am not even a bull (I have been saying for years in that thread TSLA is overvalued but as I understand the bull thesis, which involves a series of options to basically become Amazon of cars, I don’t see a short term catalyst for correction) and he still lashed out every time I even remotely questioned his evidence or conclusion.

Tesla fascinates me as a company for a variety of reasons. Almost all the posters, bulls and bears, in that thread contribute to the discussion in a fairly meaningful way, providing, at a minimum, insight into how bulls and bears think about the stock as new information arrives.

TS is not one of them. He has gotten it in his head that TSLA is worthless and basically a pure scam and doesn’t even bother to think about why bulls might rationally have a different view. TS has a “unique” posting style to begin with. In TSLA thread, it is obvious he got more and more emotional and just could not stay away from personal attacks.

Stinkypete expresses many of the same points TS does but he has managed to stay civil and has reflected on contrary facts as they came in for Tesla. TS has just lashed out any time something contrary to his view that TSLA is a pure scam and Musk is nothing but a con artist destined for jail.

Yep, you're innocent and all about the good of 2p2/BFI, it's all the trolls.

That's probably why you've been exiled from other forums on 2p2?

I've asked you to be civil and stop the name calling multiple times over a long period of time, including in private messages. Mike Haven just asked you to do the same roughly two months ago.

Anyway - I have zero desire to engage with you, my tolerance was gone long ago. Merry Christmas...hope you can find something better to do tha troll people on 2p2.

did you really..... lol...... 'seriously'..... try harder..... 1!

This was my actual point, if moderation flares like this with any criticism, what are the rules for people who fully flip out?

This is obvious to people who have ever managed risk before:

The more uninsurable risks you have, the more, probably depending on costs, you should insure what can be insured.

Exhibit 1: Tooth losing his mind and arguing with an attorney, grizy, about whether reading parts of a deposition and a plaintiff's complaint are useful without also looking at countervailing evidence.

I've worked on several multi-million dollar claims and can tell you how dumb this is too. Tooth lost his mind and called it trolling. Plus he went on for pages and pages with utter nonsense. Talk about low-content. I'd say my "trolling" added more volume than his incoherent page-long screeds.

You used to be here a long time ago. Neither you nor Ahnuld have participated, or done any moderating, in this forum for a very long time. Zero moderation, or even encouraging people to follow the rules and be civil, has played a large part in the bfi demise.

Hey there,

[x] Guilty as charged, especially over the last year+. I still regularly delete spam, but I have literally zero desire to read or try and judge the TS flame wars (or bitcoin threads). The nonsense also makes it non-enjoyable to participate in posting. As an example, see the call out above of a simple insurance post I made 2+ years ago.

Also...just to be real, Ahnuld and I have been consumed building business interests. The company I started has now grown beyond my ability to keep up with, so it eats all my non-family time...I'm guessing he's dealing with some of the same.

I've messaged both Mat and Ahnuld looking for their desires and there's another moderator who messaged that he's willing to jump in and help. My desire is what's best for BFI, so I'm on board with whatever those guys want to do.


PS: Go post some more boating stories. Some of my favorite reads on 2p2.

Look at my posting here before the politics trolls/hard left woke crowd like turtletom arrived on 2p2. Collegial, pleasant, ultra high content, for a long time. The tone in this forum is a failure of your moderating in removing the trolls/worthless posters/people with agendas, it's that simple. Other posters are telling you that.
It's all been about politics. I'm libertarian Jew and the woke left here - left to run amok - has strangely decided I'm a Nazi for opinions that were uncontroversial among mainstream Democrats 15 years ago. They made Matt's life hell with their constant nagging. It's a weird situation but it has nothing to do with me.
Well, thanks for making your position clear. case3 appears to have pissed you off with an example of you being highly uncivil to a newbie (and wrong in your analysis besides).

The real trouble with this forum is the lack of actively posting mods. Your last post in this forum is a full year ago. Why are you moderator or even weighing in on this thread? You're not a member of this forum and have no clue on any of what's going on.

ahnuld hasn't logged in in 11 days (but is at least somewhat active - about 50 posts this year).

Bluegrassplayer has five posts in a year - all in the bitcoin thread, and about 12 in 2 years - all in bitcoin threads.

Actually looking at this it's become clear why this forum has become trash - no active mods or any moderator who knows what's going on or reads the threads in question. As another poster told you:
But you have no idea and have just let it run amok. I'm not having a go at you, but you come here with strong opinions on a forum you haven't even participated in in a year and that your moderation (or lack of) has caused the very problem.

If we want to clean up this forum then we need active mods who actually post here. Any active mod who actually reads the threads would ban turtletom on sight as he's a pure toxic politics troll, and tell ASAP to stop stalking people (not just me) and stop being sarcastic with escalating warnings, and ask me to be more polite with escalating warnings. That would clean up all the problems with no further issues and no loss of content.

edit: Just saw your reply above. If you're both so busy then we need actual actively posting mods from the current actively posting pool of posters.

Tooth, I hate to burst your bubble but you probably the first ban bro. Just being real.

And this again is exactly the kind of behavior from you that's crapped all over this forum, and why other people say:
You have no interest in improving things. No mea culpa. No good-faith discussion. No meaningful/useful content. Just pure disruptive trolling to get a rise out of people (and not just at me).

Tooth, that wasn't a troll dude. I was speaking literally. You would likely be the first ban/ exile.

Not liking something does not equal trolling. Get a grip dude, I knew I was under your skin for shattering your image of big dick trader but jesus dude.

Ok, you want to play that game. Were you speaking literally here as well, just a few posts up?

a) A true implied statement of which you have personal knowledge
b) A lie intended to get a response from me (i.e. deliberate bad faith trolling)?

Your admission here is:
a) High quality content in a content thread
b) You admitting that you "love trolling" in content threads.

Nearly all of your posts are the same low content trolling for a reaction, often lying/trashing someone's character to get a rise. It's not like you post meaningful content. I wouldn't ask for your ban if you did. Or if you were capable of changing your behavior. All you do is lie and disrupt. You're the definition of a bad faith pathologically lying poster.

You've variously (in this forum) claimed to be an antifa member/student:

Is that true or another of your lies? Antifa block traffic, disrupt and generally cause chaos for their "cause". Is the above true or another lying troll to get a rise from people?

And more recently, you claimed to involved in million dollar legal claims when it helped your cred after you made silly comments to a working patent lawyer in the Tesla thread:

That + just finishing a degree + a decade of trading claimed...interesting life you lead.

When you posted these two in the Tesla thread recently (a few examples of dozens of posts of pure spew with no attempt at content), unprovoked, what were you trying to acheive?

This kind of total trolling spew you initiated - there are hundreds of posts of this without even a pretense at content - is why any active moderator would have banned you a long time ago. This isn't hard.

You are provably lying, disingenuous, openly actively frequently trolling, and spewing pure zero content across multiple threads. For an admitted political cause. And when you don't get a reaction, you double and triple down on the lies. I'm left with being lied about/libeled for hundreds of posts if I ignore you, or responding. Your agenda is very plain above. You're precisely what moderators are for.

Do this all you want in a low content thread, or in NVG, but this is a content forum with many wealthy people/full time traders who trade on the discussion here. You can't change so you need an exile.

yall know it’s christmas right?