Fine. Just don't make some truly ridiculous, frankly borderline offensive statement that $800k in NY is = to 80k elsewhere. It's an objectively ******ed claim.

I have to agree with this, since most of the expenses are luxuries which a person with an 80k salary somewhere else is not going to take. They are two completely different lifestyles and it's like comparing apples to oranges.

you're either full of ****, paying off huge debts, eating at per se every night, or you don't have the slightest clue how to manage your money.

It is part of the costs of making $400k in Manhattan. Just the clothing alone is a very different level of expense than it would be somewhere else. You can't show up to a $400k a year job wearing a suit from Tip Top.

I don't live there so hardly an expert but look at the amount of advertising for plastic surgery in Manhattan specific magazines. Now obviously you could say that you don't need this but if it is the norm for your peer group then in fact need it if you want to fit in.

Its also the difference between having a high income and feeling rich. I'm sure what Tweety pictures as just getting by on 400k is not the same thing as someone getting by on 40k, or someone getting by on unemployment.
Its not just the higher cost of living in Manhattan, its the fact that even at $400k a year so many people have vastly larger sums of money than you do and things you can't afford.
Somewhat why I don't know why anyone would bother living in Manhattan considering no matter how much success you find, its still not going to seem like much relative to other people.

800K in NY is the same as 80K in middle america

IF

Having dinner at Le Cirque is the same as having dinner at random Steakhouse.

and

Travelling twice a year first class abroad is the same as travelling twice a year economy interstate.

best chance is to earn 400K is climbing the ladder at Goldman sachs/JPM/random investment bank

and poker has become one of the most difficult places to earn 400K imo... right now there are at best 1000 people worldwide that make that much.. wich is a ridiculously low number.

Rich is a relative term. Please reread his post. I have no doubt that near seven figure incomes in Manhattan are not considered rich. At all.

savman

Sure. A billion people around the world think people with four figure incomes are astronomically rich.

Exactly, rich is a relative term. Relative to most of the world, you would be insanely wealthy. Also, what's with all the exaggeration in this thread? "Near seven figure incomes...not considered rich. At all." Come on now - maybe your apartment and food/"going out" expenses are all higher, but most other day to day expenses are not that different than any other major US city. My $2 loaf of bread doesn't cost you $8. My $1,000 computer doesn't cost you $5,000 (these are probably bad examples, but my point stands).

Maybe the guy in Manhattan making $800k doesn't "feel" wealthy, but the original thing he wrote said:

Barely scraping by? Give me a break. If you're barely scraping by, I hope you aren't eating at fancy restaurants or driving fancy cars. I live in Chicago, which isn't as expensive as New York, but is far from inexpensive. Our rent is generally a lot less, but we have the highest sales tax in the country. I make very little compared to others here, and can live very comfortably with a mid-5 figure income (no family to support, however.)

No wealth is a relative term to your peer group and location not to the rest of the world otherwise people on welfare would still considered rich on a global scale.

It's relative to whatever you are comparing it to. We're debating something here that is purely subjective outside of income specifications used by the government for welfare, tax incentives, etc.

In the US, household income >$250,000 puts you in the top 1.5%.

Okay, fine, that's just the US. What about Manhattan or other areas of New York? In 2009, average household income in Manhattan is $111,664. In NYC, it's $74,924. Hmm, $400,000 or $800,000 is still looking pretty relatively wealthy.

I guess if the guy hangs out with a bunch of multimillionaires, he feels poor? Either way, what he originally said is false.

The guy's problem is that he clearly thinks he's entitled to a certain lifestyle, a feeling likely reinforced by his being in the presence of very wealthy people. But that doesnt make his claim that $800k in NY = $80k elsewhere in the U.S. any less idiotic.

The problem with using averages is that it completely ignores the reality of the costs associated with making $400k.

Take for example my dad -- when he retired he made $120k working construction. He needed some construction boots, cheap jeans, and some tough clothing that could be layered. He needed a reliable car but as long as it would start and get him there that was it. He brown bagged his lunch and went to work and came home.

I went to law school and I was offered a position at one of the big Bay St firms. I didn't take it but based on what my friends make now arguably I'd be making $175-200k now. Just off the bat my clothing expenses would consume considerably more. One suit would cost me ten times what my dad spent on a year's worth of work clothing and I can't wear the same suit every day. Then there is the cost of consumables. I can't brown bag my lunch so there goes an additional $5-8k a year. I'm also going to be expected to go out with my peers at least occasionally after work so say another $10k. Then there is the car -- as a young professional I have to have a certain level of car so another $10k+ a year for that. Likewise, I can't really be living like a student as an up and coming lawyer I need to have an ok address so again an extra $10k for housing. Oh look my criminal law professor is a cabinet minister and is having a fund raiser, oh **** that girl I banged after the third year party is raising money to build libraries in China, the Associate Dean is raising money for MADD, the law school wants some money for a new library -- there goes another $10k.

Hypothetical Henry17 is making twice what dad made but is actually poorer than dad. Of course I anticipate the response that you don't need to spend that extra money and basically you are wrong. It is all required if you want to continue to increase your income. I have no idea what the implied obligations of someone making $400k in Manhattan would be but I'm pretty certain it would be a lot more than a lawyer in Toronto.

I'm not going to disagree that higher income jobs *generally* require higher expenses. But it's not linear. A guy working a $400k job probably doesn't need to spend twice as much on a suit as a guy working a $200k job. It's very possible that their wardrobes are similar.

Let's also not forget that not every high income job requires the high income appearance. I would guess in the medical field, they don't care what kind of car you drive - and scrubs are probably cheap. Yes, they probably have more student debt (this goes away eventually) and liability that other professions don't have.

The bottom line is, there are too many variables and lifestyle choices that need to be considered to evaluate who is better off. We can definitely say that higher income individuals have greater expenses (this is logical - the more money you have, the more you spend, because you are capable of spending it), but it isn't linear. As an extreme example, it's almost like someone who turns down a higher paying job because he doesn't want to pay more in taxes. It's true - but it's stupid thinking.

He said 400K = 80k, which is not accurate but not insane. It's probably more like 400k in Manhatten = 150k-175k for random other cities. Obviously San Fran, LA, & Boston are more like 250k+.

Anyway, 400k for a family of 4 in Manhatten is not by any means rich. Obviously for a single guy it goes a lot further than for a family of 4.

DUCY

jk

we're all taking this thread way too seriously

Yeah, you "need" nice cars clothes meals vacations hookers and blow. Right. No wonder everyone's in debt up to their eyeballs.

Hookers and blow are discretionary spending but if you want to be successful in many of the high paying professions then yes many image related expenditures are necessities.

Henry's correct; however, the guy who said 800k is scraping by in Manhattan needs to be shot. Preferably in Liberia.

The feminazis have taught you well.. wrong.

These rich girls are looking for a man, not a woman.

That's a pity. A meritocracy would be much better.

Average intelligence aside..

if you want a high paying job with the least amount of schooling: finance AINEC.
Next would be sales, but its almost always commission based.

With additional schooling: medicine, law

Finance and sales can overlap heavily.