Isn't it possible that if he was aiming at creating a brand aimed specifically at upwardly mobile people who always have a card on them (ie, you will never find me without my card, but 95% of the time I am cashless)? If I see a company that doesn't accept cash, to me it instantly signals quality.

Don't get me wrong, I think it increases his risk in a risky industry, but I feel intuitively like it could possibly work if the location and target audience is right.

Point taken about the cashless system, appreciate the clarification. I'll trust your experience on this issue, I guess I'm underestimating the negative impact this could have, so I think I should just implement all the advantages I have in mind with the cashless system but accept cash as well.

My location is on a two lane road in a great location but my parking is limited because of my lot size. I was trying to think of ways to grab quick sales a for breakfast and lunch as people go to work and on their lunch break so I was daydreaming about a valet service (for lack of a better word).

How it works is buyers could place their order online and pay for it. The system would auto que everyone and assign a number (perhaps their license plate). The pos system could print off the receipt with this number clearly visible that could be attached to the To go bag. A runner (aka valet) could have a sidewalk location where the food could be quickly passed (no need to accept cash or CC-in this instance it would be a no cash system) to the customer without slowing up traffic or clogging up our parking places. Perhaps ambitious but seems do-able.

I've got the E myth book, I'll go dust that puppy off and look for the other book you mentioned

Thank for another fine response!

I don't really follow your logic on this, help me out. Do you think that running 100% plastic is a positive attribute to a particular brand or that the segment you speak of somehow looks favorably upon establishments that don't trade with cash? I think the entire market generally assumes you accept both & does not draw any conclusions from the acceptance of both. However, they will likely draw some negative conclusions about places that refuse cash or require you to jump through some hoops withit. Isn't the most balanced approach to accept both?

The only place that I know that does not accept cash is the Apple store..are there many more I don't know of?

From a behavioral perspective, I don't know that I want my customers to open their statements & see 16 line charges for lunches from Taco Bandito. I don't want to be top of mind when they are thinking about cutting back their spending. "oh man, I ate there 16 times last month, wtf" Do you think they will consider at that moment the 20x they spent cash at Starbucks or just torture themselves with the evidence in front of them.

If I see a store that doesn't accept cash, then I know that it thinks it has a great product. They aren't chasing every single sale. They are definitely targeting people who think it's normal to not carry cash. All those people are upwardly mobile and hip. To me, that says something significant about the brand.

Edit: Obviously you need to make sure all customers know that cash is not accepted and never will be.

I guess subconsciously I was thinking of this type of customer. I know I'm infinately more impatient than I was pre Internet so speeding the transaction time and not having to deal with some idiot that's more than likely going to screw up my order is appealing to me.

Like Joe Pesci said in Lethal Weapon:

They always **** you in the drive-thru

I would like it more if you pursued the rallys/checkers store type & had a double drive through set-up, with a small store footprint that was fully customized to push out good food really fast. Is your entrance signalized or at least easy to get in & out of during peak service times? Will the zoning allow from drive through windows? Look into it.

I really wish you would focus your energy away from being so clever with technology & towards executing a good short menu very, very fast. You can increase the throughput for plastic transactions by contracting with a merchant services provider that allows for no signature for card present transactions..just swipe n go. That's really enough. The drive through model is well known to everyone & works really well.

Give it some thought.

VERY good point! I hadn't thought of that and thats what would happen in my case since we think a person could get fed for $10 or less and I'd obviously want them to make us a consistent habit.

Seriously, are there that many places that don't accept cash??

i'm not everyone, but i think this all just goes down to your product. if your product is that great, then I think it could work. If not, it won't. I mean, every other line on my credit card statement is Chipotle/Freebirds/Mission Burrito (the latter are Texas burrito joints) and I don't regret it in the slightest.

Anyway, just my two cents. I'll shut up now, and also I acknowledge that for 99.9% of concepts accepting cash is absolutely mandatory.

If you had a restaurant that only accepted cards, you would need to have big signs up front at your store and/or have the waiter inform your customers. This would be tacky.

It would almost be more annoying if a place only took cards, because unlike a place that only takes cash, I can't run an ATM.

This is coming from someone who uses a card 95% of the time.

We're on the same page, I definitely prefer a double drive thru. The problem is my limited lot size, the required turning radius and parking spaces required.

For a restaurant, I must have one parking space for every 100 SF

For a general merchandise (that can sell food but customers can't sit), I must have one parking spot per 200 SF.

The city rounds down when calculating space requirements if your not past the midpoint

Examples:

Restaurant that's 500 SF can get by with 4 spots 1 is HC)

Gen. Merchant that is 900 SF needs 4 spots (1 is HC)

make sense?

So when I try to do a double drive thru, it kills my parking, so I can only pull off one drive thru and still have room for the required parking while still having an adequate sized structure.

I hope to do one drive thru and one bike-thru/walk thru. I'm 100 yards or less from a VERY popular walking/biking trail (Katy Trail in Dallas) and there is no place within miles for someone to get something quick to eat or drink.

I want to emphasize the urban lifestyle and encourage people that live nearby and walk the trail to bike and walk instead of drive. I'm allowed to put outside tables without any additional parking required.

Some of my ideas are born out of the limitations of my lot while still trying to maximize it's function and profitability

If the concept was placed in a strip center, most, if not all of my limitations would disappear.

I just feel like my lot has many advantages to offset it's limitations and would be less risky that potentially having to commit to the type of leases you've mentioned and I feel like it would be a great location to test and fine tune the concept at a much lower cost.

Like I said, this ain't happening tommorrow, so there's plenty of time to consider various options.

Point taken about the technology, I enjoy finding Internet based solutions but as I learned in my construction biz, they can turn into long rabbit trails

Hey, please don't shut up, I want to hear all perspectives. I'm like you, I charge almost everything. However, I used to go to this taco stand every morning after my workout and spend 6 bucks on some egg tacos. I was reviewing my statement and realized how much I was spending and decided to start making my own tacos at home.

Then again, I like to cook and have an accountants penny pinching mindset, so hopefully I'm not par for the course.

I'm leaning toward not limiting my options to start, I can always convert to no cash if my records show that 97% of my customers pay with CC already. Seems like a decision better made with more info

If you wanted to purchase a sports bar & grill type place how would you go about it? What are some good ways to figure out that an operating business is actually operating at the level the owner says? I would only be interested in currently profitable places.

Ps.. The menu is very short, 5-10 entrees. 2-3 deserts and a variety of bottled healthy and organic drinks. Local and organic ingredients ,where possible and cost effective, assembled with a gourmet touch.

We were thinking breakfast and lunch only

I'm playing with a design where the bldg also acts as a 24/7 vending machine where people can buy our drinks anytime to increase revenues while we're closed. It would integrate with the design of the building and hopefully add to peoples curiousity and draw people in (obv depends on costs to build and maintain). Something much nicer looking than this built into one of the exterior walls:

http://www.johnnyjet.com/images/PicF...INGMACHINE.JPG

I leave everything on the table when I'm in the daydream stage and slowly whittle things down as the analysis defends or supports the idea

apocalypse_fives,

Thank you for the awesome thread.

OP: please tell us your thoughts on opening dive bars.

Your very welcome. I realize that these boards often follow a Q&A process & I will keep answering (and questioning), but I am going to try to load some better content into the thread this weekend.

Can you tell us the names of the restaurants you've been associated with?

What would you say are the top 2-3 reasons for success and failure in this business?

Disclosure: I don't pursue chef driven concepts.

I don't value chef's as highly as many of you might think. There is a place for a reliable & competent chef, but for me it's not about creativity or flair....it's about the p&l & how he can contribute to it. Is he good at stacking lux ingredients on a plate,designing entrees that require high price points & high input costs that serve to isolate our market--not so good. Is he very clever with portioning size, working from raw goods & in general knows how to put some value together for the house & the customer--really good.

One of the first things I look at in a kitchen is the walk-in boxes (coolers & freezers) & if those places are not in spectacular order & maintained like a bank vault--it's gonna be trouble. Guaranteed.

Trying to catch on in one of the better nyc, chicago or boston kitchens is not a bad idea. Focus on learning & not owning. Good operators will make some sweat equity available for the right type of chef. He will eventually come into contact with high value customers who like vanity investments. If he did come across one tomorrow, would he have a network of contacts he can draw on to put a team together?

Is he reading the trades, learning about product pricing, thinking about price stablility & in general thinking critically about the industry? Or is he watching top chef & getting regularly wasted with his crew? I have met many, many chefs & most of them don't have what it takes & do not warrant an investment.

(BTW, the bbc version of Gordon Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares is quite good)

seems like a big liability for vandalism

Also I wouldn't count out the idea for no dinner, esp if you are by a walking path. Tons of people after work going for a walk and want a quick light dinner. Also offer good smoothies, I'm always shelling out $5, at these local sandwich places if they offer a good smoothie.


Also wanted to say awesome thread, can't remember if I read it, but are you a college grad. Also do you more enjoy the task of starting up a new idea, resuscitate a failing one, expanding a working idea, or some other combo

Failure:
1. under capitalized
2. blunt pencils
3. unreasonable or illogical expectations

Success:
1. properly capitalized
2. sharp pencils
3. made it easy for the customer to say "Yes". price/value equation

I am not going to list places I have been involved in, most are still operating & I have been treated fairly by most. Owners put a lot of trust in you when they open up their books & teach you their operations. If it comes up that a question can best be answered with me revealing my personal involvement, I will--but not otherwise.

I will eventually start talking more about the concepts I have in development, my thought process, the hows & whys--but these are my own endeavors. I do work with investors, so I will have to check with them first. My relationship with them & their interests are something I protect , but they are also savvy enough to know that execution is more important than concept--so I dont think it will be an issue.

Never finished college. However, I did take some economics & finance classes via a top university & wish I would have done so sooner.

I like new starts. There is no better feeling & no greater reward (personally) than making something from nothing. I can only fix what I can control & some of the legacy issues that come with acquiring an existing an operation are beyond my control. I have never really worked on expanding a working idea other than with partners.

I like it when I am involved in the real estate.

There are some popular self service frozen yogurt places around town and I got to wondering why none of them have done a simplified vending machine operation as an adjunct to their main operation in the same building

Seems possible to construct a machine that could portion out several flavors at 2-3 sizes for x price per serving size, then customers could access the product even when the store is closed. They wouldn't get any toppings and there would be a risk of vandalism and malfunction but if it was built into the building where operating hours already occurred, it wouldn't seem to be that hard to manage if the equipment was reliable and cost effective.

Have you ever seen someone try this? Are you aware if the health codes prohibit offering a product like this via vending machine?

Seems like something like this could work well near a college where the students would want to get a late nite fix to satisfy their munchies

LOL, no.