Whats up? My name is daniel and I started playing some No limit a short bit ago on stars. I dont visit these forums. I am usually playing and think they are a waste. But that usually means im lonely. I dont discuss poker with anyone. I hired some coach(i wont dare out him like this on this forum too disrespectful), but I am not so sure anymore. I have played 70k hands of no limit on mainly stars(F U FULL TILT NO RAKEBACK FOR ME! F U!!) and im down down down. Hmm. What do I do? Before you read though I want too say I am not pointing the finger at my coach. I am just curious as too when I should move on.

Let me clarify a little more. I have never played poker in my life before this. I jsut started like 1 month ago playing for real dough. I know its hard to just jump into some games and start killing them especially when you play some upper lower stakes/bottom medium stakes of no limit.But theres been some preparation into this. My coach has demonstrated to be a winning player but despite that im still down something husky. Hes played nosebleeds basically and switched his game to playing mainly those mixed ones or w.e. So the game he teaches me he doesnt play only when they come up in mixed games. That being said, from a mathematical standpoint I dont think certain things wont apply to todays game. They are still relevant. Although he made a lot more in the early days of poker he has demonstrated over last year that he can win and at damn high stakes. Also the year before that. Basically, I think he got burnt out.

I KNOW I HAVE FLAWS IN MY GAME. Huges ones. Im imbalanced in many spots. Its my first like month of playing poker. I know this. And no limit is tough. I am getting my head beat in so I know this too. But I had about 15 sessions with my coach and im still down. Take note though, we discussed a lottttt of theory before i actually played no limit. The last 4-5 sessions over the past month have been updating while I actually play.

I am thinking maybe 4 options
1)cut my coach and get another one. use whats left of my bankroll and stop playing and get coaching from someone else
2)Play some more hands and hope we can fix my game
3)hire another coach on the side and try to take the best from both
4)keep going with my coach but i hire another coach in another game and work on that with him.

70k hands isnt a lot but it does show some results. I know shorthanded play has high variance and I know a lot of things factor into winrates. Please tell me what you think are best out those options and why

I cant keep losing like this. Yes i can study better but I have had hours with this guy and im going downhill. BUT i am getting better. I cannot lie about that. If you took me a month ago and took me now? Id be miles ahead.


let me say one thing though. I think i f***** up. Playing no limit is expensiveeee. And i noticed that maybe you SHOULDNT have the coach try to tell you general guidelines of how to play but how to PIN down specifics so you know when they can apply and adjust for them. I am thinking I am losing too much money on the exceptions to the general guidelines. I keep re-reading that lat sentence to myself so this must be one main thing.

when should a strategy that is profitable theoretically be abandoned when its actual results are showing something over a sample size? Does this make sense? And what do you think i should do?

If you are a novice, coaching is a waste of time. Post hands in the micro stakes and learn the basics. Any coach that would take on a complete noob and charge is pretty LOL.

i cannot agree with this though. I respect your advice but at the same time the way I or we view hands is like way beyond micro players on this site. My play would crush microstakes. I started out playing micros for a little bit and beat up on the players. I cannot play microstakes because its a waste of time so i started higher. I am trying to make 6 figures not 6 nickels you know. But haha 6 nickels is better than the red in my pokertracker database!

how is his ptr?

Nice. I dont know what to do. Taking these beatings at no limit is starting to bother me. I dont know if i should go with another coach or what.

Just out of interest why have you decided all of a sudden that poker is the way you are going to make six figures?
You have had advice off people on the other forum who are better players than you or i could ever hope to be yet it seems all you want is some magic formula.
You can read all the books you want, get coaching 24/7 but its experience of playing that makes all the differnece, unitl you have been in the same situations over and over and know how to handle the siuations you probably wont move forward. But to do that you need to find a level you can beat because i doubt anyones backroll can handle getting crushed like it sounds that you are.
Leaving your ego at the door is one of the biggest problems that poker players face, and it sounds like your already having this problem.
I thought about becoming a footballer because of the massive wages they get, unfortunatley it didnt work out because i couldnt play football. Good luck with your quest.

this is no use. I dont think youve answered one question ive asked. I have to find somoene else to talk about this with. Mods please lock thread. I am sorry to waste space.

Man you really need to look at what you have posted here. You started playing poker 1 month ago and think you can make six figures a year. You're are delusional. I know this sounds harsh but its 100% true. The idea that some coach has brought you up to mid level stakes without even having you beat low stakes first is beyond absurd. Sounds like the guy is scamming you.

My first thought.

You can crush micros.

You can't beat the current stake your playing.


An obvious solution is to play somewhere in the middle where you can make a profit. There are regs at 50NL that have played for years and moved up the ranks slowly what makes you think your so amazing? I think your just way to cocky and are setting yourself up to fail.

Obv some players learn faster than others but by the level of immaturity coming through in your OP I highly doubt your one of those select few.

Sorry to be harsh but heres your wake up call hopefully it will save you some money.

OP, Light your coach on fire and see what color the flames are. If they are blue he is the real deal....put him out already. If yellow or red, let him burn. You are NOT GOOD AT POKER. Why would you come to a forum full of poker players and proceed to ask a question and then not accept the answers. Your play would crush the micro's blah blah, you are an idiot. The sooner you realize that and move down to stakes you have a chance of beating the better. Otherwise bye bye 12k roll.

It sounds like you skipped some steps.

I'm not saying what you did or are doing isn't bad, but even with a great coach, it's going to be incredibly difficult to make money at mid stakes in your first month playing.

If you were doing this on your own and entered the mid stakes, it might take multiple years before you were a winning player. With a good coach and focused effort on your part... it could very well be 6+ months, who knows really.

I would move down, start posting hands in the forums for free and learning that way. Once you can beat some low stakes for a decent sample, them hire a coach as you move up. But until then, you're really throwing money at something that you may not be able to afford. It's not that the coach isn't helping you, it's that you're trying to bite off more than you can chew. You're trying to play too high, too fast and 12k may not be enough to learn to beat the mid stakes without any experience.

I have never personally played a game such as PLO. Now, if I were to play PLO, I might hire a coach for a few hours of basic fundamentals. From there, I would likely start at stakes that I am way over rolled for and just focus on improving my game. I would post hands in the 2p2 PLO forums, find a few players that are also learning and working hard at improving their PLO game to talk PLO with and I would get a periodic coaching session with a reputable coach.

That plan right there, in my honest opinion, would put me on a much faster path to success than 95% of the players that take up the game seriously (not counting people that just play around sporadically and expect to win).

Now, if you're still not satisfied with that level of progression, you have to ask yourself if you have the patience and discipline to do anything. Poker is a relatively fast game to learn if you put in the effort. Well, perhaps you can learn other fields as quickly, but restrictions such as schooling requirements, school credit maxes, required courses, etc. are going to prevent you from truly reaching your monetary goals as quickly as poker.

If you're doing everything I suggest, you should be climbing up the levels quickly in every game. You can possibly substitute playing lower stakes by getting increased coaching, but like I said earlier in my post, it may very well take more money than you have and longer. You're venturing into relatively uncharted territory here, not many people start poker and have the comfort level and bankroll to hire a high level coach and jump in at 10x+ the stakes similar new players enter in (and usually lose initially in). That is A LOT to make up for, even with a great coach.

From my own perspective, I've helped friends play the game I am best at in poker, and I would have never ever suggested they jump into 10x+ the entry level buyin, even though I beat higher levels and even though I was helping them for free. It just doesn't make sense to try to run if you can't crawl, let alone walk.

The plus side is that you sound like you might be very dedicated to learning, you just need to formulate a more logical plan and focus your efforts in a more meaningful and less risky, easier to see growth way. Good luck.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32...-coach-718223/

You suck, move down.

Fire your coach.
Move down to a limit you can beat.
Work your way up.

If you can't do this you will not win at poker.

lol

Just watch some vids.

They can teach you how to beat uNL.

Get a coach later.

are there lots of posts on chess forums where people are upset they can't beat grand masters after a month of playing?

send me the hand history from your last session and Ill go over it with you. Let me know if your interested.

OP I saw your other thread and I just want to restate that playing a hyper-LAG style at midstakes is going to be insanely unprofitable unless you have a very solid grasp of some poker theory fundamentals, which it sounds like based on your post that you don't.

In short - fold-pre flop.

Is your coach accustomed to teaching someone who plays your style?

I really hope you are a troll tbh, because if this is genuine then your ego and lack of understanding could end up costing you more money than you can afford to loose.

Poker should be 1st and foremost fun and yes the fruits of playing well at 400nl can be nice but it seems you may be a consistent looser for many years until you sort it out, and this high were talking major bucks. Learn to play at like 10nl, 25nl 1st you must learn how to beat the worst of the worst players before youll ever be able to beat the guys at 400nl.

The people at 2p2 can help you more than you could ever imagine and hopefully guide you towards being a winning player, but you somehow need to comedown from that pedestal youv placed yourself on b4 this can happen. you may be able to crush micros, but you are getting crushed now, so if you were so clever surely ud play stakes you could at least beat.

The mid-stakes 6 max/fr nlhe cash games are not the easiest ones in which to get from zero to hero quickly.You might do it if you had a talent for hu or learnt to play the mttsngs extremely well.

Dude, this is ridiculous. 70k hands/month is how many tables at a time on average?

1 table the lowest stakes you can't beat until you can beat it.

OTOH if you've got the money to burn learning the game at this level, thank you.

Asking advice from something you consider a waste ?

How much substance would you give any helpfull answers ?

OP, you're more likely to lose 6 figures (if you have access to it) with your current approach and mentality than make anything near it.

Bravo to the people making money off your delusion though.