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Beating home games, Losing at casinos Beating home games, Losing at casinos

11-22-2011 , 02:31 PM
I have been playing NLHE somewhat seriously for 2 about two years now. I've probably read a dozen books, played about 10hrs a week microstakes online until Black Friday, play small stakes home games (.25-.50 cash games or $20-$20 buy in tournaments).

I have gotten to where I can destroy the home games consistently, and have been playing every weekend or every other weekend at Casinos in AC and Pennsylvania. The pattern I've developed is winning $300-$500 in home games, and taking it to the 1-2 tables where I either break even or lose it. I book a win now and then, but over time I always end up down.

I feel I've made every adjustment to my play that I can think of, but can't beat these 1-2 games. I've tried playing tighter preflop or looser preflop....betting aggressively post-flop versus checking and calling aggressive players. Sometimes it seems whenever I decide to bet a big hand, noone calls; whenever I check, looking to control the pot or slowplay, someone ends up sucking out. I pay attention to board texture, and am more likely to bet straights and sets on boards w two suited cards, or be more cautious about 3-suited cards. I feel I've learned everything I can by reading books, and ca probably quote you what Harrington or Negreanu or Hellmuth or Sklansky would say to do in a given situation, but at the end of the day it doesn't add up.

The best theory I have is that somehow I'm giving off tells that people are not recognizing at home games but players at 1-2 tables are giving off. I've asked friends to watch me at the table, and they've told me they don't see anything. At this point, I've contemplated quitting the game completely, but I really enjoy playing, and cannot figure out why it's been so hard for me to get to the next level, especially when I hear everyone talk about how 1-2 is just filled with so many donks. Has anyone out there experienced something similar? I have a good job that I'm not interested in leaving, but I would like to be able to play poker 'on the side' successfully. Does anyone have insight on whether it's worth joining an online training, going to a poker school, or getting a coach? I know that practice makes perfect, but at the 1-2 tables, that practice has been coming at a cost of 1-2k a month, which I can't really sustain.

Any insights would be appreciated.
Beating home games, Losing at casinos Quote
11-23-2011 , 01:46 PM
You are probably playing a softer game when playing your home games in comparison to the casino as well as you're playing for more money which is probably making you play worse as well. Most people don't notice that they tone down their aggression when playing for amounts they aren't quite comfortable with losing on a play they think is correct. If you want you can hit me up in PM and we can discuss further.
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11-23-2011 , 07:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by standouts
You are probably playing a softer game when playing your home games in comparison to the casino as well as you're playing for more money which is probably making you play worse as well. Most people don't notice that they tone down their aggression when playing for amounts they aren't quite comfortable with losing on a play they think is correct. If you want you can hit me up in PM and we can discuss further.
or could it be that you're playing too far above the level of your competition ? are you thinking third or even fourth level and they're first level players ... i honestly believe id do better at 2/5 or even 5/10 but cant affoard it yet ,because im trying to play to advanced for the 1/2 donks
Beating home games, Losing at casinos Quote
11-25-2011 , 01:41 AM
I know the feeling I'm the same way. I can crush local 1/3 nl and 1/2 plo and have even done well in some entry level tourneys but when I get to the sands it seems I'm either eternally card dead or SE hands like 10/7 suited winning and played badly. One time I remember semi- bluffing at a pot because the original better reduced his bet size throughout the hand and when I said something about it to the dealer he said my thinking was way to advanced for 1/2. I've since learned not to bluff these people and it seems more often if the bet big or raise it's cause they have a monster but that doesn't help if your like me and eternally card dead. If you want to talk about hands and strategy send me a pm. I'm at the sands in pa on average 3x a week.
Beating home games, Losing at casinos Quote
11-27-2011 , 11:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by standouts
You are probably playing a softer game when playing your home games in comparison to the casino as well as you're playing for more money which is probably making you play worse as well. Most people don't notice that they tone down their aggression when playing for amounts they aren't quite comfortable with losing on a play they think is correct. If you want you can hit me up in PM and we can discuss further.
I think you're right. I've heard several people advocate playing super tight at these games because they are filled with calling stations who will get it in against your AA-QQ and AK range, but I haven't found them to be that dumb - anyone notices when you play that tight, and sometimes you get bluffed off on the flop or turn because you've made your range completely obvious to anyone willing to float.

The other night, I opened up a bit, mostly making small preflop raises to 4bb from in-position (4 bb is above what the books say, but small for the 1-2 games in NJ and PA, as you'll usually get 4-9 callers with that size raise if you raise more than twice an hour). I took down some big pots w 97o and 25o once I had established myself as table captain and was able to open up my range.

Earlier, I got a tight player to fold aces on the turn w an under-pair plus dgs plus flush draw. I made a loose call preflop ($15 from button w 89, he was in HJ, one more caller in the blinds). I'd seen him raise preflop twice in 4 hours: once he cursed and folded on the turn, the other time he showed aces, so I felt I had a good read on his style of play.

Flop comes
10 6 8

Checks around

Turn comes: Q

Giving me a million outs to his overpair. He checks, I bet $50, he raises to $100. I've seen him min-raise a number of times, and I get the impression he's min-raising for info, and I can picture him imagining all the cards that beat him. (I know I've been the guy with the overpair a millions times, hating that I've gotten so many chips involved with just a pair, and hoping the guy will go away) so I shove over his check raise for $120 more and he folds the AA face up. I decided to show, and hearing the oohs and ahhs from around the table let me know that no one had put me on a semi-bluff, and I was in good shape to run over the table for the rest of the night, which I did.
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12-03-2011 , 05:39 PM
Comparing wins and losses from a home game and casino is almost apples and oranges. In your home game you are probably playing with the same group of people. You have reads on them, know strategies to beat them, and are comfortable playing with them. They also have played with you enough to give you respect in certain situations and have a general assessment of how you play. None of those are you getting in a casino. You are playing people you have no read on and vice versa.

I agree with previous posts that maybe you arent comfortable playing for that high of stakes yet, and are probably thinking way too advanced for the 1/2 tables. Most players there are recreational players who have never picked up a book or have heard of pot odds etc.

i have played a lot of live 1/2 and am a consistent winner. its good that you study the game and know diff poker strategies but a lot of that does not apply to 1/2. Try to play abc poker id say 85-90% of the time. Use position and hand selection to out play your opponents. Tricky plays and bluffs rarely work. Once you have sat down at a table for a few hours and got some reads on most players and let them get a sense of your play then you can open up some. And just mix up your play enough to keep them off guard. I would just try to play very straight forward poker mostly, bluff rarely and in very good situations where you have a read on a player. Also trust your reads and make lay downs most players dont make at that level, and extract more value on hands where you feel you are favored. And dont think you wont get paid off by playing mostly premium hands cause they will time and time again. goodluck.
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