So I just recently found out that America's card room was found guilty of massive cheating Bots collusion user accounts, did everyone else hear about that as well?

I am absolutely no longer playing on Americas cardroom, should I now feel the same about BetOnline? I can tell you that I recently went back to the site to give it a shot and I'm down 6 by ins right away which is pretty f****** unbelievable... software assisted bot activity is definitely what it seems like.

Unless somebody can show me a consistent graph of how they progressed through the levels, I really do not want to f*** with anymore shady s*** sites.

I understand how you feel and I've been playing on ACR for years but I can assure you that those painting the picture of everything poker being a scam for Americans (and some others) right now is a bit of an overstatement. If you're going to blame losing on bots and superusers - Don't play. You can't play with that in the back of your mind. I know bots are a legitimate issue in today's online environment, but at the same time I know a lot of people (myself included) who are playing on these very networks quite a bit lately and haven't encountered one bot. In all honesty, the games seem softer right now than I've seen in the 3 or 4 years (on and off) I've been around poker.

Further, there are crushers in the 200NL-1kNL range who are laughing at how much money they're making off some of the bots. They're not as unbeatable as some make them out to be but of course - they have got to go and this is arguably the #1 problem facing the community as a whole today. Bots, collusion, house players. Those are the dark horses of online poker.

I've made it from 2nl to 100nl cash games with a pretty good winrate here. I had less than $10 in my account at one time. It can be done. Whether I will progress to stakes any higher I obviously can't say for sure.

Most of the same concerns people have about WPN are applicable to the sites on Chico. There is a lot of bots and other cheaters. The security has been extremely poor in the past. I've seen some recent improvements, but there is still plenty of cheating taking place.

If you're concerned about bots then don't play online poker anywhere other than Stars. Every other site has bots. Some much more than others. You're usually better off playing at the sites that do a better job with security and make it harder to cheat.

My advice is if you suspect you're playing with a bot or bots to switch tables. Report anything suspicious. If you're unsure then post it here.

This is a huge accomplishment and you should be commended for it. The mental discipline, study, repeatedly having to get back up, and tenacity it takes to do that in today's game is remarkable.

I'm moving up the stakes, too. I plan on combining my online play with live play (where there are no bots) and using the two in conjunction to maximize my yearly profits. We'll see how it goes.

Again: What I do know is that if you're going to sit down to play poker in 2018, you can't be thinking about bots, rigged RNG's, collusion, and super users. Variance is wild enough and you don't need to add stress and confusion to that. As MCAChiTown says: Play the game, play your best, and if you see something suspicious, absolutely take the time to report it and follow up. As I'm doing - Combine online play with live. You can learn a ton about poker for very little money by playing microstakes online and studying. Do this. Work on your game. Embrace the challenges that we all have to face today in order to profit and feel good about every winning session as you know most players aren't having a ton of them. Plenty are, though. More than enough that the game is in absolutely no jeopardy of "drying up" whatsoever. That's witchhunt conspiracy theory bull**** from people who just don't like that it's not just sit down and autoprofit anymore. Still, at lower stakes it's still very much like that. I legitimately do see worse play now than I did 3+ years ago on these same sites.

I thought most of what you said was very solid advice and the other stuff was spot on. I just question this a bit. This statement really depends on your experience and knowledge about bots. I can tell you from experience that the vast majority of players have zero idea who is and isn't a bot. If you've played 25nl+ at Chico you've 100% played with bots lately. Even at 10nl I would guess that you probably have.


Bots are not unbeatable, but they are certainly much tougher to play against than the average player in the midstakes and below. The biggest problem is the amount of volume bots can put in and the real estate the bots have at the tables while never tilting. This results in the bots as a whole taking a large amount of money out of the games.


Thanks man! To be honest I've had years of experience prior up to the midstakes and much more with MTTs and SNGs. I decided to do it as more of a challenge to see how far I could get. I can only imagine that it would a bit tougher for most with zero experience. Definitely not impossible though. It just takes a lot of effort and taking the game seriously. If you're looking to make big easy money then online poker is probably not for you.

I was recently down 20 buyins for a month. Have had multiple days where I was down around 5. Some of it due to poor strategy, but a lot of it is variance. If you can't handle the variance you're probably playing too high. That's without me knowing if you may be doing anything incorrectly with your strategy.

im not saying the games aren't profitable or that i couldnt win there, im saying the site is completely fkd up

As far as sites go TigerGaming certainly does the worst job on this network. As a whole the network could use a big overhaul when it comes to game integrity. That goes for most networks too.

I only started up again on BetOnline because 10NL is the new bottom limit and that's the limit I am currently grinding. I havn't had a sudden swing like this on Bovada since I started tracking 4k hands ago...I've played 737 hands on Bet Online and ran this report:

Overall i am down $30 with premium range TT+, AQs+, AKo
Down $56.82 after flopping Overpairs, Two Pairs, Trips, and Sets...unreal

Bovada/Ignition is certainly a bit softer in comparison. You're really not going to find many places too much softer than there.

700 hands is just too small of a sample to say much of anything. I've had bad runs for much longer than that. If you can't hack it at 10nl on this network I doubt you'll have much success too much higher on other networks.

Was there an update today? I didn't see one bot in any 25-100nl cash games tonight. It's so noticeable when they're not around. You don't see a dozen tables that say 1/6 or 1/9.

Hi, i just started playing in BOL again. Found out there is no longer any stakes lower than 10NL. Tried playing in ACR and somehow i cant login. so.. looks like im sticking with BOL for now.

tonna, you will be fondly placed in the nit hall of fame, and easily inducted on the first ballot by unanimous decision

After the last big server reboot, I came back to my account to find that a $99 mtt ticket was missing. I provided proof that I had gained the ticket... it took roughly a week to get the ticket back. This is the 1st time bol corrected an error on there part.

Thank you friend! I gracious accept my award, unfortunately I'm on the way to the bank so i won't make the ceremony

They were back yesterday. I noticed about a dozen or so between the 3 stakes I play. Still a far cry from the nearly 50 bots that were around at one point.

Traffic overall has been pretty bad since around the time the Australians got the boot. I was hoping WPN having constant issues would bring in a few more players, but I guess they all chose Bovada/Ignition cash games instead. Have the tournaments seen any increased traffic in the last week?

Tournaments are surpassing GTD's.. but I'm playing real low micros so doesn't surprise me.

The one decrease I've seen is in the $2.20 1k's on Saturday. I think 8-10 of them run and I played every single one and only noticed 1, maybe 2 met the $1,000 which is normally pretty rare as these are the best tournaments they run.. and sadly it's only on Saturdays.

I wish they would mix 2-3 in a day and have weekends contain a bunch.. it was having a ton of success before recent. I did play the 50k through satties last weekend and that didn't make the GTD either.. by how much? Didn't do the math to look.

Btw.. their 50k has such a weird payout.. 11th - 30th = $500..

Whaaat.

Traffic was a little better last night and this morning. I played 10NL for several hours and there were a good 5 or 6 shorthanded tables running along with a handful of 9max. At 25NL there were double the amount of games and the botting issue, although still there, does seem to have improved.

I think things will be fine over time. This is a good network for US players.

Thanks for the insight!


I'm glad your stakes still have decent traffic. On a Thursday night before 12am my stakes were pretty dead. I mostly play 100nl these days and there were about 4 6max tables running. That is awful and about as bad as it's been at the time of night since I started playing 100nl, other than when there's been widespread issues. Peak times are still decent, but 12am central time is not that far removed from peak hours. 10pm central time was the peak when I used to check PokerScout regularly.

I still enjoy playing here more than the other options for US players. Hopefully the traffic improves a bit without an influx of new bot accounts.

Traffic has definitely taken a hit. They used to be ranked 13-15 on PokerScout and now down to 18th.

Also says peak traffic usually hits around 10pm central, so you were correct on that. Pretty strange if games are dying off only 2 hours later.

I think the recent DDoS attacks, the Australians getting the boot, the recent decline in bots, and the weather getting better are all contributing factors. If I saw that traffic at 12am on a Sunday or Monday I wouldn't even mention it. Thursday nights have usually been much better than what I saw yesterday.

Hi,
I have a few questions. I'm in the U.S. so Betonline would be what I sign up for? I've read that I can get a 5000 dollar sign up bonus by depositing 2500 dollars, is this right? From their site, it appears that I have a year to clear this. Is this right?
Also, during prime time, is there enough traffic so that I could usually load 4 200NL six max cash games?
Thanks.

I'm not 100% certain on the bonus clearing time. The first deposit bonus is 100% up to $2,500. Not 200%. You also have the option to open an account on Sportsbetting.ag. I believe their first deposit bonus is exactly the same. Either site will allow you to play with the same player pool. Traffic has been down a bit lately, but 4 tables of 6max at 200nl is certainly possible at most times.

im new to 2+2 and i only came here to say im fed up of the obvious bots on this site.
they all raise 0.57 on 25nl and 1.17 on 50nl. they are so obvious!
why nothing is being done? are bol/tiger/sports betting involved? it seems like it!
i only play here because they accept bitcoin. that is the only reason.

Hello, Thank you. Here is the link to what I think is their official site, where I got my info.
https://www.betonline.ag/poker-signup-bonus
This site says that it's a 200% bonus. I'm assuming it's an official site.
But what I was mostly interested in was their traffic at mid stakes. Thank you for the information.