For what its worth my all-in EV line was relatively even for the last few years (since I have had this database) - sometimes under a lot, sometimes over a lot, but never anything too crazy. Around July last year it started to diverge massively and has never stopped diverging. Literally every single month since July I have run under EV. Its possible that this is variance, I plugged it into prime dope awhile ago it is possible just very unlikely.

This has been insanely out of hand for over a year now. It’s been clearly ridden with RTA, collusion and botters at 500-2k NL from what I’ve experienced.

I’m going to guesstimate the amount cheated using simple math. We are going to assume there are 20 nefarious accounts which would be the extreme low end. Even if they had very low WR, we can safely assume each account is profiting over 4k a month (that would be 20BI at 200NL and less than 10BI at just 500NL which is insanely low for running a bot or collusion). 4k*20accounts*12mo = 960k at the bare ****ing minimum.

THAT SIMPLE MATH MEANS THEY’VE CHEATED US OUT OF 7 FIGURES IN OVER A YEAR. WT ACTUAL ****.

Every bot farm and collusion ring I’ve seen at various sites has involved multiple dozens of accounts. 20 accounts is the absolute low end of how prevalent this is happening for a year+.

WHAT THE **** BONITION SECURITY. CAN WE GET A REP AND PROPER INVESTIGATION WITH REFUNDS OR SHOULD WE EXPOSE THIS TO POLK AND INGRAM?

One constructive thing Ignition/Bovada could do is give rakeback to every account over 18-24 months old. They'd be keeping rewards out of the hands of iffy new accounts and VPN Eurowhores, while hooking up all their loyal regs with a much-needed break.

Not hard to pay $4k a month in rake, either. Their unwillingness to cut any slack on rake, except via affiliates, costs the reg player pool many millions a month.

That is, if they cared.

These takes are hideously brain dead.

There clearly is a botting/collusion issue, it's not even close. Almost every high stakes reg has had their winrates more than halved in the past 12 months since the appearance of these players. The majority of which appear to be a decent chunk below ev.

There are def tables where i've seen 4 bot accounts at 1k and i bet there have been times with more. But I'll happily prop bet you that I can easily beat rake if i control 5 accounts at a table and you control the other one. These are bot accounts, it's not like time/attention span is an issue. If they are beating rake it doesn't matter to them if it's 5 of them and just 1 reg.

Just realised I may have interpreted your last point incorrectly. Did you mean they wouldn't be able to exploit the player and beat rake? or that Iggy would be ok with it?

Apologies If that was the case. If the former this is almost certainly incorrect, if the latter then 12 months ago I wouldn't have believed you but now I probably would.

Well .... It's been a good 17 years Bodog.

I choose you in 2006 when Party Poker pulled out of the US when the UIEGA passed. Mostly for your name, but also because I thought David Williams was cool. I played with Bodog Ari a bunch. I used to sit at the Evelyn Ng 200NL full ring table for years but never saw her play a hand. I still have the hats, chip set, and the bottle opener in the shape of the ace of spades you sent me. I had most of my roll on you during Black Friday which lessened the impact of that fateful day that forced me to change careers.

At this point, I refuse to give the cheaters any more money or the site that is allowing them keep doing this any more of my rake.

Good luck to all the ethical humans still playing!

Some fishy lines with seat 4 and 6 folding premium hands pre when their outs were dead

4 folded QQ56 to a single pfr from 6
6 folded KQQJ to a single raise in the bb when 4 folded AKQ9 pre to an UTG raise
Hand in question 4 floats the turn when AJ was dealt to 6



Ignition Hand #4595094509 TBL#31575465 OMAHA Pot Limit - 2024-02-09 21:21:12
Table Info: Version: 1, Type: Ignition, Stakes: $2.50-$5
Seat 1: Small Blind ($525.63 in chips)
Seat 2: Big Blind ($533.02 in chips)
Seat 3: UTG [ME] ($588.20 in chips)
Seat 4: UTG+1 ($1,114.60 in chips)
Seat 6: Dealer ($577.14 in chips)
Dealer : Set dealer [6]
Player Info: Seat1: P1-3f909014061f21a09bc05785ae40cee4, Seat2: P2-e764f90a9f6fd230eaf716cf6c9a6d7f, Seat4: P4-610bcc0147ab51b702bcd19f3d04ca44, Seat6: P6-8bd078b88be48822c0e1584333b46a1b
Small Blind : Small Blind $2.50
Big Blind : Big blind $5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Small Blind : Card dealt to a spot [Ts 3h 7s 9d]
Big Blind : Card dealt to a spot [6s 7h Qc 8s]
UTG [ME] : Card dealt to a spot [3d 5d 3c 5h]
UTG+1 : Card dealt to a spot [Td 7c 6h Qd]
Dealer : Card dealt to a spot [2h 6c Ah Jh]
UTG [ME] : Raises $17.50 to $17.50
UTG+1 : Calls $17.50
Dealer : Folds
Small Blind : Folds
Big Blind : Folds
*** FLOP *** [8d Jd Jc]
UTG [ME] : Bets $15.19
UTG+1 : Calls $15.19
*** TURN *** [8d Jd Jc] [As]
UTG [ME] : Bets $69.88
UTG+1 : Calls $69.88
*** RIVER *** [8d Jd Jc As] [3s]
UTG [ME] : Checks
UTG+1 : Bets $190
UTG [ME] : Folds (timeout)
UTG [ME] : Seat sit out
UTG+1 : Return uncalled portion of bet $190
UTG [ME] : Seat re-join
UTG+1 : Does not show [Td 7c 6h Qd] (One pair)
UTG+1 : Hand result $209.64
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($212.64)
Board [8d Jd Jc As 3s]
Seat+1: Small Blind Folded before the FLOP
Seat+2: Big Blind Folded before the FLOP
Seat+3: UTG Folded on the RIVER
Seat+4: UTG+1 $209.64 [Does not show]
Seat+6: Dealer Folded before the FLOP

2 bot profiles going at it.









Donk flop.
Bet turn, 2nd bot profile min raises
Donk jam river A8o, called by bluff blockers K9o... Hand makes total sense.

You don't seem to understand math, if you have 5 accounts (since they are not humans) winning for 1.5bb/100 it's essentially crushing, it clearly wins more than a regular who might win 5bb for the sake of it. Second of all, they wouldn't even need to be profitable necessarily. As long as they make the humans continue to lose they will be forced to quit eventually and the bots will be left with the fish (which seems like the time we are at right now). There are heaaaps of really big winners/strong reg that have quit the site in the last 1.5 years.

both queens had mysteriously been folded by other players. likelihood this is cheating?



Ignition - $5 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by Holdem Manager 3 : http://www.holdemmanager.com

Hero (SB): $880.63 (176.1 bb)
BB: $666.11 (133.2 bb)
UTG: $390.78 (78.2 bb)
MP: $1,310.15 (262 bb)
CO: $657.29 (131.5 bb)
BTN: $660.47 (132.1 bb)

Hero posts SB $2.50, BB posts $5.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $7.50)
Hero has Jd Ac 6c Kd,
BB has 2h Qc 7s Jh,
UTG has 8s 5c Td 4s,
MP has 5s Qd Ts 9s,
CO has Kh 6h 5d Ah,
BTN has 4d Js 3c 4h

2 folds, CO raises to $17.50, fold, Hero raises to $57.50, fold, CO calls $40.00

Flop: ($120.00, 2 players) Qh 2s 2d
Hero bets $38.00, CO calls $38.00

Turn: ($196.00, 2 players) 6s
Hero bets $80.00, CO calls $80.00

River: ($356.00, 2 players) Qs
Hero checks, CO bets $352.00, Hero folds

Results: $356.00 pot ($4.00 rake)
Final Board: Qh 2s 2d 6s Qs

CO wins $352.00

not sure how else someone would be floating AhKh6h5d on this board lol

Yah, more clarity prolly needed. Outcomes depend on what kinda bot scenario is being considered.

The simple one (4-5 independent bots that beat rake playing on their own, but who are all at one table) is what I meant. These guys have winrate = 0, pre-rake, vs each other, so they're paying up to 30 bb/100+ in rake at 1/2 or 2.5/5, say. They've got to extract that much from the hero, which isn't happening.

If the idea is the bots are team-programmed, either to push players out or (more extreme case ) to play optimally based on updated deck info, it's a more interesting question.

As hero VPIP declines toward zero, his loss rate is capped at the cost of blinds (24 bb/100, give or take). So in the narrow corner case, I think low/midstakes is a loser. Very tight VPIP ranges would depend on how well the hero's card equity holds up in shoves etc, I guess?

One thing we all can agree on, I think -- if there's not a game-security specialist working on an automated solution for detecting collusive play by scanning hand histories, there needs to be. Between the player and operator markets, there's a big earn to be had.

You seem to be confusing their winrate overall (1.5 bb/100 after rake here, and much higher before rake) with their winrate vs their own kin (0 bb/100 before rake).

In the example I used, it's the latter that's relevant. The math, trivial as it is, flows from getting the assumptions right.

You are assuming there is never a fish at the table, let alone two. Which isnt the case. They don't need to be winning at every single table that they play. If you actually played the games you will notice that they don't table select. Not really sure how it works but they don't seem to have a hud or adjust to any player type.

Disconnects literally all day on this site

For those of you experiencing disconnects and software issues, I am going to be that guy:

I used to have frequent issues with lag, disconnects, and software screwups. But 7 months ago, I moved to a new home where I have access to blazing fast, reliable internet. I also upgraded to a new Alienware with an I9. Since then, I have had zero issues other than an occasional hiccup for a few seconds once or twice a month, and it quickly recovers and goes back to normal.

My theory is that the Bonition software just does a terrible job dealing with minor problems. A minor internet or hardware issue that only causes a brief pause on Pokerstars might freeze or disconnect us on Bonition.

So if money isn't an issue and your internet or PC could use an upgrade, it might be worth it to give it a shot.

Why not just post under your main account? Obv who you are. No opinion on security, then WTF are you even posting for in response to what i said? Do you currently play here? Are you reading what LOTS of long time winning regs and respected members of the community are saying has been going on for over a year now and the hand histories they're posting as proof?

They got much bigger issues than their software these days

this have been my experience too

+111111, I am constantly not experiencing lag and disconnects when others are.

Bovada mobile loads up to 99% on cash tables and not connecting right now. Anyone else experiencing similar?

Just got the dreaded..

Same. I haven’t been able to play for about 20 minutes now

Down for maintenance, now saying as much on the cash game tab after I reloaded the program.

I am logged into the software, but the zone lobby is completely empty.

no cash or zone tables available