[Bodog/Bovada/Ignition] Unofficial Thread - Page 265 - Online Poker Sites -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

ahhhh that explains it then...i think i do recall seeing that now that you mention it...ok...i can remember when the internet was young we got paid to make deposits into casinos but nowadays they charge us I guess...well that sorta sucks actually...is that a policy at pretty much all the casinos?

Thanks,
R

No, but business is tough post-BF for US-facing sites.

Some costs they pass onto the consumers, depends on the site. However, Bovada is probably one of the least reg-friendly US-facing sites, but that always means the games are good.

Other than Bovada, you have a site that runs on monopoly money, 3 months cashouts, etc. WPN is good apparently, but no preferred seating and lower traffic.

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08-12-2013 , 09:28 PM

#6602

PropVillain

banned

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurg

WPN is good apparently, but no preferred seating and lower traffic.

If by good you mean double the rake then yeah it's freakin awesome lol.

Lets say you play 25nl there and everyone folds to you in the sb so you call and the bb checks. The pot on the flop will be .23. They take one of your blinds right away plus 2 cents. Then they give all that extra rake to bots playing 24 hours a day on 16+ tables to win the beast.

So yeah I hate anonymous play but other than that I'm rollin with Bovada.

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08-12-2013 , 09:39 PM

#6603

wwwin

adept

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 843

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurg

WPN is good apparently, but no preferred seating and lower traffic.

What is good about WPN, other than the debit card withdrawals? I played there, and that is the only thing that I can say is good. If Bovada implemented debit card withdrawals, WPN probably would lose a quarter of their players.

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08-12-2013 , 10:08 PM

#6604

redantfarm

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 203

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurg

Thanks Smurg for the info, but let me ask you a question. Why does least reg-friendly equate to 'games are good'? I would think it might be the opposite...I've been outta the poker online for a few years so it is all new to me again.

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08-12-2013 , 10:10 PM

#6605

redantfarm

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 203

Quote:

Originally Posted by PropVillain

Hi propvillain, A couple things...do you think anonymous play leads to more bots playing? If so, are these bots really capable of beating good players more often than losing? I'd say one of my bigger concerns about playing online is the potential that I'm playing a bot that is a superior player to me...the idea of it just pisses me off...it is ok if I lose money to a person, but not to a robot.

R,

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08-12-2013 , 10:13 PM

#6606

Online Veteran

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 3,621

For tournaments, shouldn't "SS" mean short stack, and "DS" mean deep stack? For me, they have gotten it backwards!

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08-12-2013 , 10:14 PM

#6607

chim17

Snowboarding concerts and punk music

Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 56,128

Super stack.

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08-12-2013 , 10:35 PM

#6608

A MTT PRO

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 610

Quote:

Originally Posted by redantfarm

Unfortunately you will be playing against bots on every online site you play on. Are they superior to a good poker player? No. . . but they make no mistakes and play some solid poker. It's just something we have to deal with and bovada is a botter's paradise with the anonymous tables.

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08-12-2013 , 10:40 PM

#6609

PropVillain

banned

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by redantfarm

I don't think you should be worried about playing bots at all. I could be mistaken but I don't think many bots are winning over large samples. They are basically used for volume. The problem is when they're used to cheat promotions like on Carbon where they had a promotion that was all about how many hands you can play or like on WPN where bots make it impossible for real players to win the promos.

I don't think Bovada has a bot problem because there is no incentive for volume play.

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08-12-2013 , 10:45 PM

#6610

PropVillain

banned

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by A MTT PRO

Disagree.

What's the best bot you're gonna run into? .50bb/100?
Now add no rakeback with higher than average rake on Bovada and tell me what is the incentive for someone to run bots on Bovada other than it's made easier. And who's to say Bovada isn't doing player analysis of their own to detect bots considering they have the ability to track players behind the curtain. They've already shown an initiative to protect their casino/sports betters so I wouldn't put something like that past them at all.

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08-12-2013 , 11:47 PM

#6611

redantfarm

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 203

Quote:

Originally Posted by PropVillain

These are interesting comments...so from what I'm gathering, it is just assumed that some of the players are actually 'bots'...I played about 100 sit n goes over the span of about 5 days recently...every once in a while it felt like a robot that I was playing, but who the hell is to say? The bets were very restrained and I never saw a mistake or sensed an emotional bet...the style changed as the blinds got larger and more important...To me this is a big drawback if it is happening often like some of you guys think...
Does anybody KNOW for sure that a bot is playing. For example, maybe a friend you know has a bot.

Thanks,
R.

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08-12-2013 , 11:59 PM

#6612

wwwin

adept

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 843

Quote:

Originally Posted by redantfarm

Unlike chess, there has never been a computer that could beat a good poker player. Nobody has been able to program such a bot.

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08-13-2013 , 12:24 AM

#6613

LT22

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 12,842

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwwin

Unlike chess, there has never been a computer that could beat a good poker player. Nobody has been able to program such a bot.

You have a lot to learn...

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08-13-2013 , 12:33 AM

#6614

wwwin

adept

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 843

Quote:

Originally Posted by LT22

You have a lot to learn...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compute...l_Intelligence

"Poker is a game of imperfect information (because some cards in play are concealed) thus making it impossible for anyone (including a computer) to deduce the final outcome of the hand. Because of this lack of information, the computer's programmers have to implement systems based on the Bayes theorem, Nash equilibrium, Monte Carlo simulation or neural networks, all of which are imperfect techniques.This is unlike games such as chess where (because no information is concealed) a computer can play with greater accuracy than a human."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/14/science/14poker.html

“The large majority of bots are very bad,” said Darse Billings, a consultant to PokerStars and Full Tilt and the former chief of data analytics at Full Tilt. “More than 90 percent are losing money.”

Last edited by wwwin; 08-13-2013 at 12:49 AM.

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08-13-2013 , 12:40 AM

#6615

Dizzy^

journeyman

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 384

Can New York players still play on Bovada if we already have an account?

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08-13-2013 , 01:27 AM

#6616

LT22

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 12,842

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwwin

Cool links, but apparently you haven't read about the high stakes bots that crushed.

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08-13-2013 , 01:38 AM

#6617

dark_horse

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,791

It is much more difficult to program a bot to win at NL. There are FL bots that will crush any human alive. I am almost certain I have played them on multiple occasions, especially on the higher limit tables. I just posted to the official thread about a way to ease customer anxiety about this.

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08-13-2013 , 01:54 AM

#6618

wwwin

adept

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 843

Quote:

Originally Posted by LT22

Cool links, but apparently you haven't read about the high stakes bots that crushed.

Maybe in limit, not in NL...also who did they crushed, fish?

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08-13-2013 , 01:57 AM

#6619

wwwin

adept

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 843

Quote:

Originally Posted by dark_horse

Yeah, I was thinking of NL...just too many possibilities....and if you take away the odds, the bot will fold...then you vary your play... play conservatively for a while, then go all in, the bot folds...then wait for a good hand, go all and the bot calls...and what happens when to bots are at the same table...they crash?

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08-13-2013 , 02:27 AM

#6620

wwwin

adept

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 843

Quote:

Originally Posted by LT22

Cool links, but apparently you haven't read about the high stakes bots that crushed.

Is this what you mean?
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/18...leeds-1357843/

The OP is not even sure if its a bot or not. Sometimes I play that limping style play that the guy finds suspicious, so a human could do what he says.
Maybe it's time to start a botard thread?

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08-13-2013 , 04:29 AM

#6621

Pale Gangster

stranger

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 13

Looks like they juiced up a couple of the popular low-stake Sunday MTT's. Probably overdue. Wish they would sweeten some of the weekday tourneys. Options are fairly limited.

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08-13-2013 , 04:41 AM

#6622

dark_horse

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,791

Just got disconnected. Anyone else?

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08-13-2013 , 04:50 AM

#6623

sah_24

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,332

Quote:

Originally Posted by PropVillain

Ya since company's "regualated" by the KGC have shown a great history of protecting their players , lol ...............errr wait .

Fact is if you play on bovada get used to the bots or go elsewhere because as the other poster said somewhere the anonymous tables just make it a bot's paradise .