A few years back they offered RB, a points for cash system, and standard monthly reloads.

They completely gutted everything.

Its nice they are giving $40 weekly bonuses that amount to at least a smidgen of RB but lets not get it twisted.

Stewie fabricated the theory that they have been eyeing PS model. In fact, nothing could be further from the truth. The are very happy to be raking the **** out of everyone and they think their model is working fine.

http://calvinayre.com/2013/06/19/pok...-months-later/

The truth is, the lack of options for US players and the horrific way their US competitors have handled business recently have more to do with them regaining some of the player base, but what do they care.

When you say "winning players" I think you mean "nits who rely on rakeback for the majority of their profit". I don't think any site wants those players because they waste seats grinding setups. There's nothing entertaining for recreational players when their only chance to win is being on the right side of a setup.

Personally I've never had a higher win rate than I do at Bovada and they encourage me to keep winning by providing the fastest withdrawals you'll find anywhere on the internet for US players.

Action > Rakeback

No. I meant winning players. I can assure you theyd much rather have break even nits on their site than winning players that take money from the bad players quickly before they can take that money themselves via rake, sports betting, or their casino.

You are correct though that an even better plan is to try to discourage those players as well, which is what they do.

Anyways, this stuff is all very old hat. People know these things. It is what it is.

Theres not much more to say here.

But at least its a better more interesting conversation than the barrage of rigged posts and debating lately.

Damn 5thStreetHog, so my only hope at a better poker life is winning this APS package huh....

hmm,,, it seems you don't like bovada.

The article you cite is interesting and supportive to my points. He writes in italics that winning players are withdrawing right? To be honest I see it as a super positive article. Odman is the brains behind the operation and he keeps calvin in line. calvin is a billionaire. there is nothing that would get his dk harder than being the number 1 us site despite full interstate combat in the future.

make fun of a 40 dollar bonus but they are trying and the alternative is to play on some site where you can't get paid.

I did not fabricate the ps theory. Odman is going to start up poker in Cali. Bovada is run by very intelligent people. They are baby stars.

Lol I dont know about that. I agree with you that things are looking up on the promotions in general.

But I would expect more of the same if we are lucky, there is nothing suggesting that they are going to change directions as far as offering a VIP system or RB of any significant kind.

Like you said though, $300 a month in RB via this months promotion is better than the nothing we were getting a few months back thats for sure.

Ill take it.

I play at Bovada. My first four tables I open everyday are at Bovada.

But just because I play there doesnt mean I cant be honest and objective about the fact that they are charging us way more rake than industry standard. Some players are paying double the rake theyd pay on other sites.

That I dont like.

I also dont like the way they slant the playing field with their software changes.

Neither of those things had anything to do with keeping the games "soft".

They were both flat out money grabs. The former straight up. The latter an attempt to target recreational players to line their own pockets disguised as protected them from poker players that would do the same.

Im sure the much higher rake and software changes could have the unintended consequence of making the games softer, but if it does its marginal.

The sportsbook and four table max made the games softer off the jump.

Since the rake grab and software changes the games havent gotten much easier. Any EV that was gained from the no RB policy was quickly negated by the edges they took away with the no note taking ect. and the fact that most winning players have no other good options as Americans so we just suck up the high rake and play anyways because its still the best option for a lot of us.

Odman backs up that reality in the article when he reveals that their numbers show winning players arent winning as much since the changes.

Just because Bovada is still better than other US options for a lot of players doesnt change the above facts or mean I cant be critical of them and or honest regarding some of their policies, particularly their rake and manipulation of the playing field and game itself for their own gain.

holy cow. you play on bovada and you are against them?

you are saying that you are allowed to be critical. i disagree. the rake is appropriate stop crying.

I don't understand why you want 75% rake back and some unknowing fish with zero rakeback suckers up to you. that is not fair.

they took away note taking????

here's a note: you are not as good as you think you are else you wouldnt be....

I would counter but everything you wrote is either a lie, idiotic, or unintelligible, which unfortunately is pretty standard with your posts.

Back to ignore where you belong, peace.

why are you responding to me if you have me on ignore?

another cry baby move to ignore someone who hurts your feelings rather than just read the post and man up.

You never post in the bovada cashout thread. Well you do but you never withdraw.


I get it. You are pissed...

I have to give Bovada props though. I hated on them a ton when they switched to this anonymous crap, but at the end of the day, they are the only network that is growing in a shrinking industry. I don't really care if they make it inconvenient to win as long as they keep the soft games going. I agree that it sucks to not have rakeback or anything like that, but who cares dude? Do you see your win rate? It's WAY higher than it would be anywhere else. If you prefer to make your money through rakeback then go play on Merge or something and 20 table micro stakes at BE like everyone else does on that site so that you can win the rake race. I'll take soft high stakes any day.

Im getting bored of discussing this. I put Stewie back on ignore because every discussion Ive ever had with him goes the same way, he talks out of his ass, I check him easily, he gets mad and acts like a little child thinking he will hurt me if he invents lies about my poker results or calls me names. But I will respond to one last post even though I had you on ignore as well which means you must have made a completely idiotic statement or post in the past so Im probably glutton for punishment here but Ill keep an open mind and reply.


If you want to be honest and give them credit for taking advantage of Revolution and Merge becoming disasters in an already barren poker landscape thats fine. If you believe they are growing because of anonymous tables and high rake I disagree.

As I stated already, the facts are the games were soft before the rake increases and software changes. The facts are those changes have made the games less profitable for winners.


“We can see the model is working, the recreational player is getting more bang for his buck. Winning players are still winning albeit not as fast.......” - Jonas Odman


So your line is that you want soft games, but you are criticizing someone for criticizing things they are doing out of pure greed that are making the games less soft?

Whatever. The four table max was a great way to keep the game ecology in balance without screwing the players and gouging them for every penny they have. It was working great. It did all the things they claim the RB increase and software changes did without doubling the cost and altering the game play for their own financial benefit at the expense of all players good and bad.

Who cares if they have to pay 15k more a year for an inferior product?

I do.

Sigh. Did you not read my post that you are commenting on?

This is totally irrelevant to anything I said.

Just forget it. Again, that is neither here nor there.

Forrest/Trees.




There, thats a wrap for me. Im putting you back on ignore, as I assume I put you there for a good reason, and Im done with this subject.

Its really a no win for me. Half the week I get called a shill for defending sites from false allegations, the other half of the time I get called a site hater for pointing out things about them that I dont like.

Peace.

lol you should really consider a career change. you obviously hate playing poker for a living.

anyone know of any ways to get money onto bovada online for american players, such as a virtual giftcard? i've searched through the thread and found some info regarding that but figured it may be outdated now. any help appreciated.

5thStreetHog are you lonely or something? How about sitting out a few plays and stop trolling this thread?

Anonymous tables are great. I thought is hate it when I came back but it's awesome. Games are like five years ago good.

Messaged

Latest check I got had a letter attached saying to not cash through the ATM and go to a teller. Why ?

Prob an international check and the vast majority of ATM don't read international checks and some banks don't take international checks, so easier for most to go to the teller. You can certainly try the ATM.

totally forgot about this silly aps mtt requirement to get the $50 bonus. Anyone know if it's too late, or can I play the one today at 19:42 EST?

In the same boat, according to the T&C, the week doesnt end until midnight tonight and only tourneys played after midnight will count towards the next day.

Just got off the phone, and it looks like to meet the requirements for this week, the entire MTT must be over before 12am Monday. So I guess, it's just a matter of, if the one at 19:42 will end within 4 hours or not.

Another option is to play the $22 that starts in 15 min.

total misread as it says it right there. *duh*

tru dat

I am playing the $22. Cause f*** knows if the one at 8pmish will finish before 12...

I played in the APS $7.70 this week and placed to get a $44 + 4 ticket. If I play that next week it will still count towards the requirement even though I bought in with a ticket correct?