2p2ers lie

They are abbreviations of these forum titles.
Beats, Brags, and Variance
News, Views, and Gossip

remember being winning player means taking more money out of poker economy than you put in/having a +EV game. this does not mean that because someone can beat nl25 they are a winning player because if they tilt their roll off at 25/50 from time to time their play as a whole is -EV.

With table selection, anyone can be a winner.

I dont think you've analyzed this correctly, but i don't think its worth arguing. pokerstars knows exaclty what percent of people are up and down, so it should be easy for them to tell us.

also a lot of the players i meet live seem like they read this site, so the analysis of 2p2ers is wrong. there are just as many losers as winners on here, though I dont meet a lot of bigtime losers who read the forum

i win monies

He asked if posters on 2+2 were winning players.
Can you not read as well as spell?

The power of the _ my friend, nice name though

1/3 are up, 2/3 are down.

That doesn't correlate much with what % are winning players, if you'll believe my psychotic rantings.

You have to take into account that to be a a winning player you have to be able to beat the smallest stakes available. The problem is that some people do beat those stakes but play higher and lose. They prefer to lose playing higher than win playing lower which makes them degens.

Ummm... the percentage of dots to the right of 0BB/100 is not the same as the percentage of long term winners DUCY?

Lol wat

I don't data mine a ton, but here is what my Full Tilt database (virtually all 6 max and mostly 1/2) says... Not opining on anything, just giving you my stats... I am actually surprised that there are not more losers.

Players over 200,000 hands - 1 player (me) 1 very small winner (1.38 PTBB/100)...

Players over 10,000 hands - 31 players 69% winners, 31% losers

Players over 2,000 hands - 778 players 56% winners, 44% losers

Players over 500 hands -3,758 players 50% winners 50% losers

Players over 100 hands - 18,242 players 46% winners 54% losers

Players with at least 1 hand - 62,060 players 38% winners 62% losers

Moral of the story - if you play a lot you are more likely to be a winner????

I lol'd at the 2nd biggest loser in my database... Phil Ivey has lost $171,000 over 680 hands at NL 1,000. Does that prove how bad stats from a small database can be...

I love the dot of the guy with a VPIP of 22 running at -350BB/100 in that scatter graph. NioNio's nemesis imo.

Well 2+2 is a pretty huge community so it's quite difficult. I'd say the majority of the regular posters in the various strategy forums are winners though.

cover up FTW

I used to wonder at number as well. I initially thought that most 2+2ers were winning players, but I have come to learn that the overwhelming majority are breakeven at best.

This is the way it is in the poker world. Ask 100 players in a poker room if they are longterm winners and 90% of them will claim they are. I would guess that 2-5% of live players win in the long run and about 5-10% of players win online. The remainder contribute to the house and the winners.

Just check out BBV. They are all losers over there im sure.

Poker is a scam to fleece the masses. The gangsters capitalists just come up with bull**** like dealing cards to people and charging them $10 an hour every to do it to take your $/wealth away from you so they can have yachts and mansions while we all work paycheck to paycheck for 40 years with nothing to show for it. 1 in 20 is probally winne with the ridiculous rake and tournament fees.

Human nature. Seems like every time I sit down to a live game the players are chatting about how much they win online and cashout etc. Then they limp/fold 1/5 their stack utg or otherwise play bad and I chuckle to myself. No different online.

I think what you said seems to be pretty common as well....

Have I ever cashed out...yes...a large amount for me...yes.

Does this make me a winner overall...I have played for about 5 years....I think overall, live and online...I am somewhere around even +/- a few hundred. I have never really tracked it.

I can tell you some of the cashes I have made, I can also tell you some of the big losses I have taken.

I would consider myself a winning player live...well, I know I have been...that would have make myself a winning player online...no.

Anyway....I think true numbers are nearly impopssible to come by. I would think here just like anywhere else has its share of winning players, some even play for a living....break even players...and losing players. I would think most are in the last 2 categories.

Another question....what percentage of players that are winning players...actually make enough to play for a living?

You do realize that those were over really small samples of hands?

I agree with Zeebo... there's a lot of flavor of the week type players. If you aren't willing to move down when things get rough, you're basically assuring yourself a trip to bustoville with very very few exceptions.

There are very few people that actually come here and claim outright to be winning players, as if to gain the approval of their peers. They usually disappear quickly into the abyss. Anybody that does so is usually A) Not a winning player, B) A douche bag, and C) Highly flammable i.e., becomes the target for all the haters.

*You'll find that most players are honest with themselves and others, and come to try and plug leaks in their game. You'll see the occasional thread posting a graph and genuinely asking for advice on where things went wrong.

*Does not include anything and everything in BBV.

NVG is 90% winning players, the 10% losers are just lurkers.