Now you are making assumptions about me that you shouldn't do.

Who gives a **** about coaching sites, books and all that other offline stuff? I am talking about stuff that gets projected at the table while some of the same players at the table don't know what is actually going on, and the stuff thats get projected at the table is humanly impossible to collect/remember on your own. You don't think there is something wrong with that?

I honestly do not, since in my opinion having so many stats available is just overkill and really not needed. The players who don't have a clue about such software, probably are not good players, and they're not getting crushed because of people having stats on them, they get crushed because of their play which you can (and should be able to) beat without the use of it anyways.

The real advantage is in my opinion vs regs due to playing far more hands vs them, and most of them do use huds.

and this proves exactly what?

Jesus, nobody is talking about why bad players getting crushed.

Just leave already

Ok, i get it, you only want to have a "discussion" with same minded people who agree with you. Obviously i can't give an opinion based on things i feel have to do with it and why i think some people overreact.

Last time i checked this was an open forum. I'm really sorry that my opinion is different than yours, please forgive me.

no big deal. you just lost course somewhere in your post and ended up crashing into the woods.

I don't understand your argument. Are you're saying it's not fair because some people don't know about NoteCaddy? There's always going to be new software, coaching, books coming out. Everyone has the same opportunity to stay on top of what is available to use. If they don't know about it, it is their fault in my opinion. It's like going into day trading without doing any research.

I guess that you want HUDs banned too because they project information that arguably is humanly impossible to remember over time too.

A lot of people are making the argument that internet poker is nothing like live poker. Well that's obviously true because we have access to a computer! I'd much rather have HM2 and NoteCaddy available for everyone to use legally, than making it illegal and suspecting that others have found a workaround to use them illegally, or have made their own version that is undetectable.

Sincerely,
nostrakhan

I find it amazing that all the people who are in favor of the use of 3rd party software in online poker want to convince us that it doesn't really help anyone. Why exactly do you use it than? You said it yourself, "reads and notes are more handy when you have a ton of hands on people, and those are often not recs, so that point is moot", but you didn't play those hands with those people. You want to gain information on players who you don't have a history with. You want there hand histories at your disposal even though you didn't play those hands against them. This of course, is aside from the fact that those hand histories are from players whom did not offer such information, nor did you make them aware that you had it. That's the problem. If you know how to improve your game by working at it, than why use this software that doesn't even really help you as you claim. Personally, I think your full of it. Your trying to downplay the software so that it seems more ethical by saying it doesn't really do much. Yet you've been using it since 2010? That's a long time for a piece of software that doesn't really do anything, don't you think? I call BS. People like you are scaring the fish away when you shouldn't have to.

so my slippery slope argument doesn't cut it and we stop exactly at NoteCaddy, right? and we assume that no one out there is clever enough to squeeze maximum effect out of all the legaly available tools?

No, as long as a software conforms to the poker site regulations then it should be allowed imo. NoteCaddy only uses hand histories just like HM2 or Pokertracker 4, but it displays the information in different ways that can be easier to interpret for a lot of people.

The reason for using 3rd party poker software is to try to help squeeze the most +EV out of each situation, so I'm not really sure what you're implying.

Sincerely,
nostrakhan

WTF? Do yourself a favor and read what i wrote before making a comment. ALL the information i have on people is through the hands I played against, i NEVER bought handhistories, end of discussion. I thought it was pretty clear with what i meant. The more hands you have on people, the more reliable notes and stats are, and you will have more hands on regs than you do on recs, for the simple reason that you do not come across them all that often as you do with playing regs.

This is probably the 3rd time now, the reason why i bought notecaddy in the first place was because it saves me time and is easier on the eyes, not the cluster**** of handwritten notes. Never did i say that there wasn't any (possible) advantage, but that the software itselve is in no way the deciding factor whether or not a player is a winning or losing player.

But good job on totally making a whole different story out of what i wrote.

HM, PT do not only use hand history information. i made a case out of it some time ago </wink>

Read what you wrote yourself. You are getting blasted here for a reason. Contradicting yourself being just one of them. Insert foot into mouth sir!

[x] What the ragers are missing

What else do they use for showing data? Sorry I looked through your posts but didn't see it.

Sincerely,
nostrakhan

look in threads i started.

I know exactly what i wrote, and i'm not contradicting myself. I've been saying the exact same thing over and over. Perhabs it's my use of the english language as a non-native speaker, but i really thought i was making myself very clear.

Where exactly in that quote did i say that i buy handhistories, the program is useless or gives you zero advantage? That's right, i didn't write anything like that.

You're the one who is making false accusations about me wanting and getting handhistories of people i have never played against.

Ok, is this about how Zoom hands get read by HM2 & PT4? I'm not really sure how this pertains to the subject, unless you are just correcting me that I said HM2 & PT4 only use hand histories. Thank you for the correction if that's what you're going after

Sincerely,
nostrakhan

Let me just say the obvious here......the biggest edge you will ever have in a poker game is created by keeping the fish happy. Nothing in poker will ever be as profitable as having a comfortable fish at the table. The truth is that add on software in general scares the living day lights out of the average online poker depositor. Weather they are right or wrong about it is irrelevant. Therefore, we need to create an environment that is as comfortable as possible for them to play in. This will also create an environment where that same player will continue to come back, even though they are losing money. No software on earth will ever give you an edge like that. All the people on here defending 3rd party software are the same guys who show up at the casinos and berate the fish about there play to the point where they pick up there chips and leave. Wake up! Didn't your mothers ever tell you not to bite the hand that feeds you?

no, just my way of saying that site rules are not necessarily good rules, and that rules are things that may or may not get actually enforced by sites ;-)

Seriously.

The funny thing is, what all the anti-hudders wanted was available at Cake, but they didn't want to play there. Used to be no HUDs and frequent screen name changes (I think they still have the screen name changes).

What's next all in favor of 3rd party software are also beating their wifes?

I've seen my fair share of table abuse, and alot of that comes from fish. The same category who are supposed to not be aware of this software. Another great example of blaming the software while it's the people who are being rude at tables.

Keep on making stuff up, perhabs some people will believe you.

i played at cake till i learned people were using huds there

The only HUD people were using there was Poker Edge, which is a data-miner and illegal by all sites. The problem we saw at Cake, which disallowed HUDs, is exactly the problem some people have been trying to explain: banning HUDs creates a black market where a few cheaters will break the rules to get an edge on the rest of the field. Not to mention, the HUDs that cheaters will use go beyond what programs like HEM, PT4, and NC do.

Now Cake simply allows HUDs.