I think there is a big difference between dealing on the "circuit" and regular dealing in a card room.

When I play in some of the UK tournament circuit games I see more people giving unknown dealers a hard time. I think it's not dissimilar to internet trolling- you don't know them, they can't really fight back- the punch bag analogy is a good one.

However when I play in one of the regular games in one of the local casinos it's a different story. The dealers are part of the group. The players know them, and vice versa. Actually- these guys get far worse abuse- but it's all done in the way that friends will sometimes abuse each other. Context is everything. And the dealer can give it back.

I can imagine circuit dealing being a soul destroying job in many situations, whereas dealing in a local casino would be much more enjoyable much of the time (with the odd exception you always get dealing with the general public).

Dealers are the reason I don't tip.

That and the fact that I don't win any pots ever.

Besides Obama, dealers are pretty much at fault for most of the crappy stuff that happens in the US.

thread has potential, thanks for taking the time to write up.

i play live in casino where the regs are awful, maybe 1-3 good players in the whole place.

I just dont think some people can remove their animalistic inward aggression at a solo competitive+money game like poker. The level of terrible regs berating fish is soo bad, I like to try white knight the fish and berate the idiots inadvertently deliberately... sadly I dont think these environments will ever change. ever. only a few people can really handle themselves with class for a long period of time around this kind of behaviour

any advice on how to treat dealers with a little more class? like always thank dealer when they or hero leaves. anything else??

also, as a dealer how to do you feel about chip fiddlers who fiddle their chips when theres headsup pot going on and villain is not in said pot? poor etiquette? or okay??

lastly, as a dealer when players fold and obv show certain other players with the angle/height of folding - why are some dealers such pussies at calling this out??

Thanks for bringing this up, surprised it hasn't been yet. Very very true!

Thanks for the questions! I will answer to the best of my ability only with my 2 weeks experience.

As for treating dealers with class I think the easiest and best way to make a connection with a human on any level of interaction is introduction. Now obviously introducing yourself to each dealer is absurd but where I'm going with this is when a new dealer comes in, it is to my experience while playing that they all say hi in their own way. When we get in the box we need to switch the deck and get adjusted in our seats so I always said "hey everyone how are we doing over here" and then after I shuffle/collect antes (on the first hand at the table) I always said good luck everyone once I started pitching. It isn't hard to just say "hey" or "what's up" ... not to engage an actual convo but to just acknowledge each other in a way.

The easiest way to show class/respect for a dealer given your short half hour with each of them is this: when a scenario comes up that you need to question/address/anything to the dealer ask them what their name is. This past Sunday I played a 240 at a local casino and needed some change from the dealer as I only had 3 5k chips. I said verbatim: "hey dealer, what's your name?" -Paul "hey Paul would you mind chopping this up for me?" The fact that I asked him his name seemed to surprise him. Point is, constantly referring to a human as "dealer" as opposed to taking the 2 seconds needed to find his/her name (if you can't see their name tag - I was in the 9 seat) seems foolish to me. Now in conversation referring to me as dealer who cares but to answer your particular question here - just ask/refer to them by name if asking them a favor or question.

I don't mind chip fiddling at any point of any tournament but I can see where you're coming from - I don't think is an issue nor something that a dealer could/should take care of.

Yes the fold and show is something that I handle by just saying "careful guys anybody can ask to also see those cards" or something like that. When I see this during a hand when them folding isn't the last action I see if anyone is remotely piqued by this so I can keep the cards on the top/bottom of the muck to be exposed after the hand if someone asks (rarely-never happens) but if someone shows his/her neighbor before mucking after the hand is completed I am not flipping the hand over but I am making it obvious that someone can ask to see them as I keep them facedown separated from the muck for a couple seconds, and if nobody asks then there is nothing I need to do.

I want to point out that I'm cognizant of these things because of being a player and understand the game on a deeper level than almost any other dealer you'll even encounter. Knowing the game to play versus knowing it to deal is different because as we know you learn different nuances and little things that come up so rarely...doesn't mean you shouldn't know the rules for when that situation may come up...

Hope that answered what you were asking and shed some light on your questions! Thanks for the reply!

Edit: forgot the "pussy" reply... One of the most uncomfortable scenarios I encounter those 2 weeks what when I was dealing the 10-25 PLO which had a 1k min. Literally just got the the table and a new dude was filling a seat buying in for $800. It's a 1k min. Dude in 1 seat mentioned something about it to me, I "owned" the issue and reminded the newly seated player about the 1k min and asked if I could get him a chip runner. He said "the guy who sat me (which would have been the floor in this instance not the brush) said it was ok." Once he says that I took him at his word as the entire table heard. I then asked the table if they would like me to call the floor for confirmation then added that if nobody has any issues with it (especially considering his claim) we wouldn't need to do that as it was busier than hell. As I say that 2 people lay into me saying it's my job this my job that blah blah. First off: the guy got information from my "boss" second off I just said I would get the floor over to sort out the miscommunication, yet, it was still my fault. Dealers can't make everybody happy thus taking the route of least resistance may make some amount of sense when issues like this arise. I felt I could get the situation handled myself so I did what I thought was right to no avail. So to answer the question directly I would say the reason for dealers being "pussies" would be that instead of making one [or 2] players happy, they prefer to make ZERO [or 1] people/person upset as opposed to making something a situation where all players are involved inevitably making more than 1 upset, annoyed, etc... However, just a thought, could be anything!

Now that I'm thinking about it on the players side of things when people show each other their cards...it's a "rules nit" way to making the game uncomfortable for the recs playing for fun not understanding that showing cards to each other really isn't something they should do. Just asking the people showing in a joking fashion about what secrets they're keeping is a good approach. They aren't doing it to get an advantage, we are asking for their cards because, 1. It's within our right and 2. Because it gives US an advantage. So I guess what it boils down to is whether that information gives you as much of an immediate advantage as you think versus them being uncomfortable/feel stupid etc etc or whatever they may feel.

Just engage people, joke with them...no need to go straight to the rule book because it not only makes you look like a jackass but it's not conducive to a "fun" environment... P.s. They'll usually just tell you what they're showing if you're good at what you do. Being a poker player should be treated like a business...if you were a salesman you wouldn't go slamming down the rule book in the face of your customers at every opportunity, would you?

In my pretty long experience it comes down to how a room is managed. Poker everywhere draws players who have issues. The more crap management lets them get away with the more pervasive abusive and antisocial behavior becomes. Where and when management cracks down on problem customers overall player behavior improves.

Thanks for the reply, I will def go away trying to awe some dealers by asking their name next time i'm in a new spot!! and bumping some "hi, how are you today" when dealer is fiddlering around with chair settings to buffer some comfort!!

Regarding the folding and showing i was mainly referring more to "high throw" fold with the cards rotating at a certain angle so only particular seats at a table can see villains folded cards... pre flop this tilts the hell out of me, especially when regs target someone who doesn't quite realize whats going on... and are trying to give buddies information with blatant disregard for everyone else at the table. I'm constantly nitting up on this one and calling it out for all at table to be aware. lol nits gonna nit. im a nit.

Great OP. Thanks.

Regarding show one show all, the rule is to prevent collusion. Only that. Unless you are legit worried that you are legit being cheated, do NOT invoke this rule. It is bad for the game. It makes fun players feel less comfortable. Let them show their hands to whoever they want.

The most obnoxious people iv met at the table were wannabes, losing or backed "pros" and oddly enough other dealers. Nothing tilts me more than seeing a player having a good time get berated. The players that do this clearly don't understand the impact of rake and how precious the person they're talking down to is.

Ahhh yes...misunderstood the question, sorry for the tangent.

As far as what 2 pair is saying I think that this is just a by-product of the game and people will continually be ignorant and lax with their folding styles regardless if they are doing it with a partner or not. Why? Because when something isn't affecting someone personally (in this case the folder) then he/she can really just "not give a ****" about it and if told/asked I'm sure they will adjust it when they are cognizant and thinking about it. However, I think this just comes about on accident, more times than not, and even those who correct it in the short term really don't care enough long term because it's a subconscious and lazy habit.

"hey can you try to keep your cards down, they're flashing" works short term but their awesome cool flippy spinny fold is so awesome they won't care long term. Although you are correct, and it is a bit frustrating, try to channel your attention on the culprits and on other information in general rather than getting upset because, how I see it, this will be hard to eradicate when dealing with short term recs or wannabes.

You shouldn't tip dealers based on pots won, winning pots is your responsibility, not the dealers. The dealers job is to run the game well. If you want better dealers I recommend tipping at the end of the down.

At the end of each down I tip $2-$3 (some times more if shorthanded) to the dealer based on how I thought they performed, did they deal quickly, pay attention (to the game, not the TV or their conversation with seat 7), did they manage the game fair and know the rules etc. If they were terrible I stiff them. Then I give their tip as a bonus to the next outstanding dealer that comes through the box.

If more people tipped like this the bad dealers would quit more often, and the good dealers would quit less often, and the quality of dealers would slowly improve.

Yea, I don't like how you handled this. If players at the table are breaking the rules and you let them do it, forcing me to object in front of them and their buddies is completely wrong. You should have immediately called for the floor to confirm and told the player, I'll need to confirm that with the floor.

I agree OP. I think it's very difficult not to.

What's more though, and perhaps a little unrelated - I think poker pros, in general, are quite egotistical off of the tables, too. This won't cause as much harm as doing it in a live poker environment but I'm just speaking from experience and the point is: if poker players in general are more of the boastful type then it's going to be tough to change how they actually are when it comes to a poker table.

From the thread title I expected a lot on interesting reverse pov pictures. Instead it's just some guy ranting about other poker players.

In hindsight I 100% agree with you on this, but in the moment it didn't seem like a huge issue. I would understand if he bought in for 500 and didn't say the room supervisor told him it was ok...but yes you're still very correct.
This for sure

Which makes your response what exactly? Read it next time before assessing what you think it's about because you're slightly off.

Thanks for your insight, though!!