Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
View:  Recreational > Pro.  If I had to play 500k hands a year I would shoot myself in the head View:  Recreational > Pro.  If I had to play 500k hands a year I would shoot myself in the head

01-15-2010 , 11:42 PM
nice post LfTV
View:  Recreational > Pro.  If I had to play 500k hands a year I would shoot myself in the head Quote
01-16-2010 , 12:18 AM
Most of the people posting in this thread are idiots.

Poker needs recreational players.

Thanks for sharing OP.
View:  Recreational > Pro.  If I had to play 500k hands a year I would shoot myself in the head Quote
01-16-2010 , 12:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obfuscation


most? I dunno about that. But I hear ya. The freedom issue is true for sure. I get 4 weeks vacations and a week of personal days and it feels like nothing.
yea most is probally a overstatement but i consider a serious grinder being 100nl above. and like i said before your definatly in the minority of people who have a semi likable job. alot of people just sit in a cubicle or sit in a office for 8 hours a day for alot less then what most 50nl+ "serious grinders" make monthly.

also just to be clear like you said in op there are atooon of players playing hours upon hours thousands of hands a day breaking even being fpp pros who just struggle to make minimum wage with rakeback or fpps who are basically (some derogatory term for pathetic roboteens) and all that.

but still if your willing to work hard for it i honestly believe professional poker beats 90% of any jobs you could get without being a genius or born into some kind of lucky situation
View:  Recreational > Pro.  If I had to play 500k hands a year I would shoot myself in the head Quote
01-16-2010 , 01:03 AM
also kinda small side note.


alot of people with jobs dont really realize how hard it is for a 19 20 yo with absolutely no experience to get a job today compared to grinding up a small roll play 10nl. im not 100% but im pretty sure a dedicated fulltime player could make more playing 25nl than some cashier job at the popcorn stand in the mall, if not more atleast the same.


if anyone could prove me right or wrong it would be greatly appreciated im pretty interested.
View:  Recreational > Pro.  If I had to play 500k hands a year I would shoot myself in the head Quote
01-16-2010 , 02:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2OutsNoProb
I know I do.
I doubt anyone else here does, I'd imagine Friday night is prime multitabling time
Oh yea, sitting around with people drinking and doing NOTHING is better.
View:  Recreational > Pro.  If I had to play 500k hands a year I would shoot myself in the head Quote
01-16-2010 , 02:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnivore
I play a million hands a year and love it.
Isn't it funny when condescending people don't understand that?
View:  Recreational > Pro.  If I had to play 500k hands a year I would shoot myself in the head Quote
01-16-2010 , 02:33 AM
quit reading after girl and hookers and blow. nobody needs a hooker when they have a girl. fraudalert!
View:  Recreational > Pro.  If I had to play 500k hands a year I would shoot myself in the head Quote
01-16-2010 , 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jinzerd
also kinda small side note.


alot of people with jobs dont really realize how hard it is for a 19 20 yo with absolutely no experience to get a job today compared to grinding up a small roll play 10nl. im not 100% but im pretty sure a dedicated fulltime player could make more playing 25nl than some cashier job at the popcorn stand in the mall, if not more atleast the same.


if anyone could prove me right or wrong it would be greatly appreciated im pretty interested.
This works both ways. If you're the aforementioned 19 or 20 year old, you're going to make it that much harder on yourself for the future by avoiding work and grinding the small roll you mentioned. You won't have work experience to offer a potential employer, and that is a big key for young people today.

Also, it's rather dim to use the old and tired line about working at the mall. Yes, it's difficult to get good work at a young age, but not all work when you're a sophomore in college consists of $7.25 hourly serving burgers, and 2p2 needs to understand this.

Quote:
Oh yea, sitting around with people drinking and doing NOTHING is better.
You can rationalize all you want, but this is a silly statement.
View:  Recreational > Pro.  If I had to play 500k hands a year I would shoot myself in the head Quote
01-16-2010 , 10:38 AM
Lot of haters in this thread, OP expressed a view that he would rather do his regular job than be an online poker pro.
He isn't suggesting that all online pros pack in poker and get a 'real' job.
It would be difficult being an online pro if there were no recreational players imo
View:  Recreational > Pro.  If I had to play 500k hands a year I would shoot myself in the head Quote
01-16-2010 , 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa Jonez
lol. Is that the best you can do, loser?

Go bore your troll gf about your pathetic life. You're a disgrace, even by NVG standards.
Pot meet kettle.

Oh, and good post LfTV.
View:  Recreational > Pro.  If I had to play 500k hands a year I would shoot myself in the head Quote
01-16-2010 , 12:29 PM
I think what op means is that for many NOT all, poker is difficult and not as easy going as some people make it out to be. Majority of people don't make an extravagant living at poker. This has been discussed numerous times in other post. To be great at online poker takes a lot of work and dedication and also luck , which many people are not able to handle and don't have. IT's not a lifestyle for many.
View:  Recreational > Pro.  If I had to play 500k hands a year I would shoot myself in the head Quote
01-16-2010 , 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnedfromTV
I'd probably like to do the 10% most fun part of your job with no real consequences if I do it badly too. Or read a great book that helps me learn the intellectually stimulating aspects of your job without requiring me to do the cubicle bull**** day to day. Or work part time on a political campaign or as an assistant coach without the responsibility of being a policy-maker or full-time teacher. Doesn't matter what it is, whatever thing you choose to do 100%, you accept the good and the bad. Everything else is a hobby, and hobbies are supposed to be more fun than jobs. If anything, if you're choosing between two similar-paying potential jobs, it matters more which one sucks less when it sucks... I don't like some parts about being a poker player but none of them are as bad (for me, personally) as the bad parts of most other jobs, especially office jobs. Overall, your points are valid and a fine picture of a different perspective. I like getting drunk and donking around too and sometimes I'm envious of people who can treat poker that way whenever they feel like it and then go back to their real life/safe income.

I'm 29 and worked two "real" jobs and have a lot of standard-career friends so I do have broader view of the working world than the 20 year online pros. Whoever said OP isn't ambitious and is jealous of people who are is wrong. A lot of people attempt to play poker full-time. Many of them see poker as an easy path to money, which is not the same thing as ambition unless they have the skill to back it up - most are delusional and fail. Of the true pros, the percentage who are successful enough that they are satisfying a strong ambitious urge is probably similar to the percentage of ambitious, driven successes in other fields. OP portrays himself as a cog in some corporate machine and is comparing his job to the online poker equivalent - a grinder who isn't exceptional but makes his living. Some people don't want to be a CEO, nothing wrong with that. It's better to grind out a comfortable living than be a broke, wannabe baller with "ambition." It's just a lot harder to see that in the poker culture because it glorifies ballerism and degeneracy.
good post, /thread
View:  Recreational > Pro.  If I had to play 500k hands a year I would shoot myself in the head Quote
01-16-2010 , 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnedfromTV
I'd probably like to do the 10% most fun part of your job with no real consequences if I do it badly too. Or read a great book that helps me learn the intellectually stimulating aspects of your job without requiring me to do the cubicle bull**** day to day. Or work part time on a political campaign or as an assistant coach without the responsibility of being a policy-maker or full-time teacher. Doesn't matter what it is, whatever thing you choose to do 100%, you accept the good and the bad. Everything else is a hobby, and hobbies are supposed to be more fun than jobs. If anything, if you're choosing between two similar-paying potential jobs, it matters more which one sucks less when it sucks... I don't like some parts about being a poker player but none of them are as bad (for me, personally) as the bad parts of most other jobs, especially office jobs. Overall, your points are valid and a fine picture of a different perspective. I like getting drunk and donking around too and sometimes I'm envious of people who can treat poker that way whenever they feel like it and then go back to their real life/safe income.

I'm 29 and worked two "real" jobs and have a lot of standard-career friends so I do have broader view of the working world than the 20 year online pros. Whoever said OP isn't ambitious and is jealous of people who are is wrong. A lot of people attempt to play poker full-time. Many of them see poker as an easy path to money, which is not the same thing as ambition unless they have the skill to back it up - most are delusional and fail. Of the true pros, the percentage who are successful enough that they are satisfying a strong ambitious urge is probably similar to the percentage of ambitious, driven successes in other fields. OP portrays himself as a cog in some corporate machine and is comparing his job to the online poker equivalent - a grinder who isn't exceptional but makes his living. Some people don't want to be a CEO, nothing wrong with that. It's better to grind out a comfortable living than be a broke, wannabe baller with "ambition." It's just a lot harder to see that in the poker culture because it glorifies ballerism and degeneracy.
Nice post.

I agree with a lot of this and I hear you when you say you might enjoy 10% of my job or some other interesting career choice. It's true. The good parts of my job are the fact that it does involve some significant responsibility and I get to participate in the upper management of the company I toil for. The bad part is dealing with all the BS that comes with many office jobs. That's life.

I guess the thing I wonder about the most when it comes to professional poker players is where the sense of personal satisfaction comes from, ultimately. Obviously money is a great motivator for just about any pursuit in life but satisfaction is a lot different than money.

My satisfaction comes from knowing I've cut a wise deal, or given solid advice, or handled a troubling problem in a creative way. What is the poker equivalent? I suppose it's knowing that you are in the elite of all poker players if you can support yourself by those means, the feeling of accomplishment and the pride that you're doing something incredibly unique in society as a whole?

Understand, I admire many pro players. It's inspiring to read about the young guys making tons of cash. I got a kick out of watching 2 Months 2 Million even if I'm 12 years older than the guys on the show and could see the difference in myself from the ages of 22 to 35. (By the way, I never understood why half of 2+2 mocked those guys mercilessly since it seems like they were living the dream of just about every guy on this site).

In general, I'm just trying to point out that there are a lot of guys like me and not so many guys like you who are legitimate and successful pros and part of that is skill and dedication but much of it is choice. I don't really know how good I could become at the game because I don't have the time or inclination to really go all out in pursuit of that kind of goal.

Seems like people are reluctant to admit that poker isn't an all consuming life goal, but then again it's a poker board so that might not be too unusual after all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fjbourne
I work full time (44 hrs week) and play poker "recreationaly" around 10-15 hrs week on average. Income wise I made about twice my jobs yearly salary playing poker online in 2009. I had an extremely good year in every way and am very happy and comfortable.

With that being said, I'm 80-90% sure at some point in the next couple months I will leave my job for some reasons you do not bring up. Off the top of my head some are-
1. Opportunity cost
2. Taxes and the ability to file as a pro
3. Investment Opportunities
4. Quality of life/Travel

there are more but this is nvg and i don't want to write anymore
See, that's awesome. This is part the issue for guys like me though. I'm fairly well compensated so to match or double my income by playing poker I'd have to be playing fairly substantial stakes in serious volume. Because I'm not sure if I could beat something like 400NL online (probably not) it kind of leaves me to play lower stakes, which in turn doesn't always hold my interest because I can theoretically afford to play higher stakes.

So there are reasons no everybody hits it hard that don't involve lack of ambition.
View:  Recreational > Pro.  If I had to play 500k hands a year I would shoot myself in the head Quote
01-16-2010 , 07:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jinzerd
also kinda small side note.


alot of people with jobs dont really realize how hard it is for a 19 20 yo with absolutely no experience to get a job today compared to grinding up a small roll play 10nl. im not 100% but im pretty sure a dedicated fulltime player could make more playing 25nl than some cashier job at the popcorn stand in the mall, if not more atleast the same.


if anyone could prove me right or wrong it would be greatly appreciated im pretty interested.
Probably right. I've netted decent enough bucks from 50NL over the years (a grand here, a grand there, whatever, nothing crazy) so I'm sure a kid playing winning poker full time could do better monetarily at those stakes than at some joe job.
View:  Recreational > Pro.  If I had to play 500k hands a year I would shoot myself in the head Quote
01-16-2010 , 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11377
I think what op means is that for many NOT all, poker is difficult and not as easy going as some people make it out to be. Majority of people don't make an extravagant living at poker. This has been discussed numerous times in other post. To be great at online poker takes a lot of work and dedication and also luck , which many people are not able to handle and don't have. IT's not a lifestyle for many.
It's not necessarily a lifestyle choice for every person who CAN beat the game as well.
View:  Recreational > Pro.  If I had to play 500k hands a year I would shoot myself in the head Quote
01-16-2010 , 08:01 PM
Grunching.

I have never played near 500k hands in a year.

To each their own, tho. If u like ur job and love poker on the side, good for u.
View:  Recreational > Pro.  If I had to play 500k hands a year I would shoot myself in the head Quote
01-16-2010 , 08:17 PM
funny thing is that a very good poker pro could easily do a random job like everyone does, but not everyone has the ability to become a poker pro.
So its hilarious imo when a random guy hypothetically says he wouldnt play poker even if he would be able to make >$1/hand without big efforts ... just h
View:  Recreational > Pro.  If I had to play 500k hands a year I would shoot myself in the head Quote
01-16-2010 , 09:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loco1887
funny thing is that a very good poker pro could easily do a random job like everyone does, but not everyone has the ability to become a poker pro.
So its hilarious imo when a random guy hypothetically says he wouldnt play poker even if he would be able to make >$1/hand without big efforts ... just h
This is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. Like what training/schooling do you need to play poker? You cant equate poker to most jobs in the world. In fact many of the idiots playing poker for a living are doing so because they cant do anything else, and poker is the easy way out. Lots of "quitters" playing poker, that would not go through any tough times.
View:  Recreational > Pro.  If I had to play 500k hands a year I would shoot myself in the head Quote
01-16-2010 , 10:53 PM
lol
View:  Recreational > Pro.  If I had to play 500k hands a year I would shoot myself in the head Quote
01-17-2010 , 06:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jinzerd
all im going to say is your are definatly in the minority that actually likes there job and isnt soul crushed every week. also no offense but most serious grinders probally make more than you and have alot more freedom.
That's a pretty bold assumption. There are many people who make significantly more money than your average person who plays poker for a living.

As for freedom, the number of people who play just 25 hours a week and earn any kind of reasonable money ($100K+ net) is small. The majority of poker players put in very long hours.

There's freedom in the ideal poker player's life just as there is fame and glory in the ideal musicians life. Most just play in cover bands at local bars, though.

This said, I'm certainly not knocking those who decide to play poker for a living. A number of my friends do. It boils down to personal preference.
View:  Recreational > Pro.  If I had to play 500k hands a year I would shoot myself in the head Quote
01-17-2010 , 07:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obfuscation
NVG: "Please do, ldo."

Thinking about the foxwoodsfiend thread and about my own career and the apparent theme on 2+2 that being a pro poker player is the be-all end-all of life. I'm not so sure.

I'm 35. My job's ok, I'm reasonably happy with my career so far. Not my life's passion but not soul-destroying either. Gives me the ability to do pretty much whatever I want and as far as poker goes, I am basically forever rolled for small to mid stakes.

I love playing poker. I play mainly live but have probably put in maybe 500k hands online (almost all at micros/low stakes) over the past 5-6 years or so. Paid for many trips to Vegas and various other frivolities. I cash out and reload. Sometimes have just reloaded.

Live I play 2/5 or drink it up and have fun at 1/2. I've played as high as 20-40 limit a couple of times live. I play in a weekly 2/5 home game and various 1/3 games in clubs here in NYC. Some nights I'll lose a few buy-ins and others I'll win a few and blow 1k on great dinners and booze with my girl or friends (hookers and blow, ldo). I don't maintain a dedicated bankroll for the most part because I like to spend my winnings on frivolous things.

I've played a couple of the 1,500's at the WSOP and thought it was awesome.

Live I'm a winner. Online I'm probably a net winner but a breakeven or slightly losing player since UIEGA kicked in. I 4-table 6-max and have never had a big tournament score. I sometimes tilt and take shots at SNG's for my entire bankroll online and we all know how that works out. I've never claimed to be a great poker player and I'm ok with this.

However, I love pretty much every minute of my poker "career". I doubt I could ever enjoy the game like this if I had to do it for a living. When I sit down to play online now I really enjoy spending a few hours in the evenings or weekends grinding out some hands and hopefully making a couple of bucks.

I love playing live even more and could do it for hours and hours on end. I love the feeling of arriving in Vegas or even Atlantic City. It's one of my favorite ways to spend time.

But for a career? Ugh. No thanks. I definitely would love to not live by a clock, that's for sure, but I would rather start a business than grinding out 20 tables of 200NL (assuming I improved my game to the point where I could win). I have a friend who is a rakeback pro and who feels like his life is in suspended animation. Lives to get those 1k checks every month. It's no way to live, imo.

Unless I could get lucky and pop a big tourney win (which will probably never happen) and thus get a pimped out sponsorship for 10k buyins around the world (lawl), then I just don't see the appeal.

So there you have it.

tl/dr - gtfo old guy!

Cliffs: Old guy muses the life of an online pro and sees little appeal.


Ok so you like playing poker for fun and just gambling stuff up (for fun) and you don't want to play poker for a living and be disciplined with your money poker wise. Ok.
View:  Recreational > Pro.  If I had to play 500k hands a year I would shoot myself in the head Quote
01-17-2010 , 07:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by moki

As for freedom, the number of people who play just 25 hours a week and earn any kind of reasonable money ($100K+ net) is small. The majority of poker players put in very long hours.

Reasonable money is $100K plus?


Don't look at the poverty guidelines:

http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/09poverty.shtml


You'll be shocked it's possible to make so little.





Don't even look at general household income given the median is only about a half of what you think is reasonable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Househo..._United_States
View:  Recreational > Pro.  If I had to play 500k hands a year I would shoot myself in the head Quote
01-17-2010 , 08:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego05
Reasonable money is $100K plus?


Don't look at the poverty guidelines:

http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/09poverty.shtml


You'll be shocked it's possible to make so little.
Reasonable money in terms of "giving up the prospect of a stable job and long term career for the future, and grinding out long hours to play poker" yeah. I'd say $100K is at least what it'd take.
View:  Recreational > Pro.  If I had to play 500k hands a year I would shoot myself in the head Quote
01-17-2010 , 08:21 AM
500k hands a year is like 3 hours a day 8-tabling. dont see the problem...
View:  Recreational > Pro.  If I had to play 500k hands a year I would shoot myself in the head Quote
01-17-2010 , 08:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa Jonez
Who the hell are you and why would anyone care about your poker aspirations (or anything else about you)?
.
View:  Recreational > Pro.  If I had to play 500k hands a year I would shoot myself in the head Quote

      
m