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UK Puts Forward Legislation to Toughen Gambling Regulations UK Puts Forward Legislation to Toughen Gambling Regulations

12-05-2012 , 10:45 AM
the article here:
http://www.pokerupdate.com/news/law-...g-regulations/

cliffs:
- The government is committed to strengthening the regulation of remote gambling to ensure that effective consumer protection measures are afforded to all British based consumers
- Under the draft, all gaming concerns—home or abroad—would be required to hold a UK Gambling Commission license to operate and advertise in Great Britain.
- The UK government is currently surveying gaming operators ahead of the legislation’s introduction to Parliament. The Treasury will determine the point of consumption tax rate, which will likely be 15%.


I dont know how large the 15% is compared to other regulated countries but it sounds big. A research from Department for Culture Media and Sport that was conducted recently (cant find the link atm) said that 40% of the industry will be forced to move away if this 15% gets enforced.
UK Puts Forward Legislation to Toughen Gambling Regulations Quote
12-05-2012 , 10:50 AM
Stars and FT are 99% of the industry so those who wont get the license prolly wont be missed.
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12-05-2012 , 10:59 AM
As a UK citizen, this is the bad news I hoped would never come. No good will come of this for UK players. I've always dreaded the day the government starts sticking it's nose into online poker and online gambling. It would be the Tories though wouldn't it?
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12-05-2012 , 11:11 AM
I don't know how the British government works. When they say they 'put forward a draft' is that like some random senator proposing something in the US where there is less than a 1% chance it actually happens? Or is this basically a lock or ...?
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12-05-2012 , 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CocteauTwin
Stars and FT are 99% of the industry so those who wont get the license prolly wont be missed.
They're not. Its gambling legislation not poker legislation.
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12-05-2012 , 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAIBOT24
It would be the Tories though wouldn't it?
lol.









Oh wait... you're serious?
UK Puts Forward Legislation to Toughen Gambling Regulations Quote
12-05-2012 , 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrtrebus
They're not. Its gambling legislation not poker legislation.
Oh, I don't gamble outside of poker so couldn't care less.
UK Puts Forward Legislation to Toughen Gambling Regulations Quote
12-05-2012 , 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CocteauTwin
Oh, I don't gamble outside of poker so couldn't care less.
Still Stars + FT will suddenly make 15% less since they are not taxed atm. So maybe they will make you care a bit if they increase the rake even more (not sure how that will work though).
UK Puts Forward Legislation to Toughen Gambling Regulations Quote
12-05-2012 , 12:03 PM
theres no way stars could choose to rake UK residents more just bcos they're being taxed

this really doesnt look that bad, the only bad part looks to be the period of time where companies apply for a license but i cant see stars/FT being blocked until they obtain one or w/e.

considering legislations in othe countries that have been passed, this looks pretty good.
UK Puts Forward Legislation to Toughen Gambling Regulations Quote
12-05-2012 , 12:10 PM
A shake-up in poker legislation in the UK has been thrown about for at least two years
UK Puts Forward Legislation to Toughen Gambling Regulations Quote
12-05-2012 , 12:11 PM
Is this going to lead to the Brits only being allowed to play the terrible sites like William Hill and f****g ladbrokes?
UK Puts Forward Legislation to Toughen Gambling Regulations Quote
12-05-2012 , 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NikTheGreek
Still Stars + FT will suddenly make 15% less since they are not taxed atm. So maybe they will make you care a bit if they increase the rake even more (not sure how that will work though).
That will be tricky. They can't exactly charge UK players 15% more rake per pot when they're playing people from other nationalities. I'm sure they can find a way to charge us though. Charges on withdrawals a separate VIP system that gives less back etc.

A 15% hike in rake would be the worst thing the world, as long as the UK government aren't planning to tax gambling income at a player level. This would be a bit of a disaster and hurt the poker Ecosystem. The problem is that once a Government gets its nose wet in these matters, they don't exactly just stop there.. they will continue to see what else they can completely **** up with us.

I'm not exactly sure how this will pan out, it's bad news for the UK online bookies though, it's big business in the UK.

News like this really makes me worry about the future of online poker and it's sustainability. I think everyone who is making a living at midstakes, i.e not crushing high stakes really needs to have a back up plan.

I'm currently playing professionally (just out of uni) and all I want to do at the moment is play full time. But I'm going to do an internship just to fill a potential CV gap even though I don't want to at all and don't need the money.

Really worried that this will all come tumbling down on top of us a la USA.
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12-05-2012 , 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Graham
Is this going to lead to the Brits only being allowed to play the terrible sites like William Hill and f****g ladbrokes?
Please no. Smaller playing pools are just never going to be a good thing. Thankfully, stars 100% agrees with this, so they will fight for it. Hopefully.
UK Puts Forward Legislation to Toughen Gambling Regulations Quote
12-05-2012 , 12:13 PM
so the sites would have to pay 15%, not the players? of course this is likely to make the sites charge more rake but it's perfectly reasonable to tax them
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12-05-2012 , 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Graham
Is this going to lead to the Brits only being allowed to play the terrible sites like William Hill and f****g ladbrokes?
No. It's really bad news, but not quite THAT bad.

But it might mean pokerstars.co.uk is separate as pokerstars.fr is.
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12-05-2012 , 12:27 PM
The proposed bill is:

http://www.official-documents.gov.uk.../8497/8497.pdf

It's entirely unreadable: it re-writes a previous Act. And it only regulates the advertising of foreign gambling sites to UK consumers. Considering that the ad can also be "foreign", it's hard to see how this might work, except by politeness.
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12-05-2012 , 12:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowjoe
No. It's really bad news, but not quite THAT bad.

But it might mean pokerstars.co.uk is separate as pokerstars.fr is.
This would drastically shrink the player pool though. I'm not sure how many people would want to set up an account, prove identity etc. specifically to play with UK players.

I think we're definitely behind some other countries, but nowhere near as much as the French.
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12-05-2012 , 12:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowjoe
No. It's really bad news, but not quite THAT bad.

But it might mean pokerstars.co.uk is separate as pokerstars.fr is.
Lol isn't that worse? Why is it that everything I enjoy in this world, the government have to stick their head in one way or another? No you're not allowed to binge drink here Sir, you are outside a Primary School and the children are asking their teachers who the strange man shouting to himself is, No sir you can't Smoke here you are in a public place. Just leave us alone! I'm not even a winning player but I can't imagine doing anything else with my spare time and these threats that the Government are making hardly give me an incentive to up my game, if anything it will derail me and force me resent my country and lead a life of crime due to spite. before you say "you're not a winning player, why should this bother you?" well it should bother you because there will be one less fish who deposits every time he comes accross some cash swimming in the sea
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12-05-2012 , 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowjoe
The proposed bill is:

http://www.official-documents.gov.uk.../8497/8497.pdf

It's entirely unreadable: it re-writes a previous Act. And it only regulates the advertising of foreign gambling sites to UK consumers. Considering that the ad can also be "foreign", it's hard to see how this might work, except by politeness.
You missed the important bit where it extends the application of the licensing part of the original act to any remote gambling company whose service is accessible from the uk. As far as making it work, just remember the uk has nukes
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12-05-2012 , 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by davmcg
You missed the important bit where it extends the application of the licensing part of the original act to any remote gambling company whose service is accessible from the uk. As far as making it work, just remember the uk has nukes
Yeah, let's get them to nuke Howard Lederer...

Or maybe not

My point is that they only have jurisdiction over the players - UK residents are subject to UK courts. Even Pokerstars would need to be "extradicted" from the Isle of Man. They may have nooks, but they can really point them at wherever Merge or Ipoker is based.

But the only way that taxing UK poker profit makes sense to ME is if the pool is walled off like Pokerstars.fr.
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12-05-2012 , 12:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nl5warrior
so the sites would have to pay 15%, not the players? of course this is likely to make the sites charge more rake but it's perfectly reasonable to tax them
The 15% isn't mentioned in the Bill. However, the Labour government at one point removed a gross tax on betting to be replaced by a tax on the profits of betting companies in the 2000s. I would imagine that at least initially, the same thing would apply in this case.
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12-05-2012 , 01:01 PM
I always assumed that gambling sites in the U.K did pay tax on profits, not the players. Or is this legislation about getting sites that currently don't to do so like Pokerstars?
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12-05-2012 , 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowjoe
The 15% isn't mentioned in the Bill. However, the Labour government at one point removed a gross tax on betting to be replaced by a tax on the profits of betting companies in the 2000s. I would imagine that at least initially, the same thing would apply in this case.
The tax bit is in other draft legislation, this licensing bill is there to enforce the tax collection. As far as the licensing is concerned presumably the UK will join the france/italy/belgium/spain etc bandwagon and sanction/block websites of unlicensed operators.
UK Puts Forward Legislation to Toughen Gambling Regulations Quote
12-05-2012 , 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAIBOT24
As a UK citizen, this is the bad news I hoped would never come. No good will come of this for UK players. I've always dreaded the day the government starts sticking it's nose into online poker and online gambling. It would be the Tories though wouldn't it?
As a UK player this is absolutely GREAT news.

Many companies try to use Malta or Jersey Islands licenses to illegally operate within the UK. Of course when when there is a problem they don't respond and claim the UK has no jurisdiction even though every office of theirs is in London. ParadisePoker.com is one offender that I have had personal experience with (I did get paid but only because I found a contact there).

I am still sick about the 2007 regulations that allowed casinos to admit members in only 24 hours, allow tips, and have 24 hour operations. These changes were the end of good games in London with the 24 hour operations absolutely destroying the action that existed the same way for many years.

The UK really needs to step up enforcement of rogue companies and they need capital to do this. I have dealt with the UK gaming commission for business and as a player and they are woefully underfunded. This tax is good news for everyone and I hope the 2007 law gets repealed eventually.
UK Puts Forward Legislation to Toughen Gambling Regulations Quote
12-05-2012 , 01:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NikTheGreek
Still Stars + FT will suddenly make 15% less since they are not taxed atm. So maybe they will make you care a bit if they increase the rake even more (not sure how that will work though).
I said outside of poker.
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